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<blockquote data-quote="The Shadow" data-source="post: 8961658" data-attributes="member: 16760"><p>I'm not convinced that the word "simulation" is a good one for what certain playstyles are doing. It certainly has a way of leading into the weeds!</p><p></p><p>I'm not much of a "sim" guy any more, but I used to be. I think what's being looked for is a game world that has a sort of life of its own. Like the real world, it doesn't care whether you live or die, it'll do its own thing regardless. If you want to make a mark on it, you'd better be prepared for it to make a mark back. It owes you nothing.</p><p></p><p>It's not that one is simulating the real world, so much that one wants an intense sense of verisimilitude. A sufficient illusion of reality to immerse oneself in.</p><p></p><p>Anyone who's more into the playstyle, please do correct me if I'm wrong.</p><p></p><p>Say what you will about Ron Edwards (and there's plenty to be said), he did say something so insightful about the difference between "sim" and "narr" that it crystallized a lot of inchoate feelings that eventually helped set me on the road to "narr".</p><p></p><p>It was that both types of game, if set in (a version of) Japan, might well have a code of bushido. But their attitude toward it would be different.</p><p></p><p>A "sim" samurai player would regard it from the start as a fact about how to play his character, and play it to the hilt consistently. A "sim" game system might treat bushido as a disadvantage that gives points back because it constrains play.</p><p></p><p>A "narr" samurai player would treat bushido as something that the character is on a collision course with - seek to put the character into situations where he has to choose between it and other things he holds dear. A "narr" game system wouldn't reward you for taking it, but for testing it.</p><p></p><p>I would add that a "narr" world, like any consciously fictional world, isn't neutral to the characters at all. The characters are its sole reason for being! Or at least, <em>pace</em> Tolkien, for its being instantiated in this story, right now.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Shadow, post: 8961658, member: 16760"] I'm not convinced that the word "simulation" is a good one for what certain playstyles are doing. It certainly has a way of leading into the weeds! I'm not much of a "sim" guy any more, but I used to be. I think what's being looked for is a game world that has a sort of life of its own. Like the real world, it doesn't care whether you live or die, it'll do its own thing regardless. If you want to make a mark on it, you'd better be prepared for it to make a mark back. It owes you nothing. It's not that one is simulating the real world, so much that one wants an intense sense of verisimilitude. A sufficient illusion of reality to immerse oneself in. Anyone who's more into the playstyle, please do correct me if I'm wrong. Say what you will about Ron Edwards (and there's plenty to be said), he did say something so insightful about the difference between "sim" and "narr" that it crystallized a lot of inchoate feelings that eventually helped set me on the road to "narr". It was that both types of game, if set in (a version of) Japan, might well have a code of bushido. But their attitude toward it would be different. A "sim" samurai player would regard it from the start as a fact about how to play his character, and play it to the hilt consistently. A "sim" game system might treat bushido as a disadvantage that gives points back because it constrains play. A "narr" samurai player would treat bushido as something that the character is on a collision course with - seek to put the character into situations where he has to choose between it and other things he holds dear. A "narr" game system wouldn't reward you for taking it, but for testing it. I would add that a "narr" world, like any consciously fictional world, isn't neutral to the characters at all. The characters are its sole reason for being! Or at least, [I]pace[/I] Tolkien, for its being instantiated in this story, right now. [/QUOTE]
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