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Message: <blockquote data-quote="rmcoen" data-source="post: 8961988" data-attributes="member: 6692404">Late to this party, so let me tangent the current conversation for a sec and respond to the OP.1)  I love having mooks for the PCs to mow down / wade through / confuse and frighten / whatever.  Go for it.  Last session the party manipulated an already assured war victory against an enemy town into an overwhelming landslide with illusions, fog, and a well-rolled shatter spell (and the ranger set about quietly murdering scores of his Favored Enemy).  The session before that - softening up the target just mentioned - the bard distracted three dozen enemy citizens and warriors while the others destroyed seige weapons and dueled the enemy leader (and the ranger set about quietly murdering scores of his Favored Enemy); for their escape, the bard then frightened all the gate guards with an amazing and eerie bagpipe performance (and a convenient Nat20).  Level 8 PCs against dozens to hundreds of normal goblins, with some bugbears and leveled hobgoblins as hardpoints.2)  I house-ruled in a couple different longer-term consequences of combat.  I won't go into the details; it probably takes a few days to recover from a bad fight, but no one is losing a hand or an eye.  But a "win" from a fight can still impair the characters several days later.  Several "important to the PCs' goals" skill checks have failed because someone still had an Exhaustion Level from being dropped to 0hp recently (disadvantage on all skill checks).  Some of those checks were important to current storylines, some self-imposed timelines, and some "just fluff" - the bard is still embarrassed, game months later, at the mention of his performance at Fort Lurstin where everyone chipped in with magical and mundane assistance for an amazing show for the just-rescued soldiers... and the bard rolls "20!  Ah, crap, I'm exhausted, hang on... a 2."  [Also it was a major backslide in his personal quest for fame and glory, against his NPC rival.]3)  Based on storylines and player choices, some other consequences have been far more extreme.  Several PCs have "gone out in a blaze of glory" to end risks or defeat enemies.  A few have retired due to having achieved their personal goals, or just reached a point in their story where the risks of adventuring "just don't make sense any more".  One PC - through a time manipulation - sacrificed 2 levels by retroactively writing himself out of the entire multiple-session sidequest, in order to arrive at the end of it to save the party.  Another PC lost her sight for months by abusing a special power she had (and overestimating her abilities) [she was able to partly compensate with some magic and significant limitations, and eventually crafted a potion that restored her].  Another straight up became the "bartender is secretly a retired adventurer".4) Characters die in my games.  I don't want it - I have plans and plots that involve the PCs; I give them Fate Points to temporarily avoid it.  The players don't want it - they all have their own stories and plans and ties to the game world.  And it still happens.  Sometimes they get resurrected.  Sometimes they stay dead.  Once, a character came back as a LBEG vampire!  But "Stupidity kills" (tm), and also... I don't balance the world to them.  The red dragon of the current campaign is ON THE MAP I gave them at the campaign start; they can go there any time.   They almost got killed entering giant territory at level 4 (lost a horse just traveling nearby; a following scouting mission turned into "how quietly can we run away?").  At level 7 and 8 they were fighting... 7hp goblins and 13hp hobgoblins for a while.  If they get themselves in over their heads... they can run, they can be creative, or they can die.  [But d@mn if I wasn't surprised when they killed a CR 15 Purple Worm at level 6!]So yeah, this is a story and a game, but if there are no consequences, then a lot of the "game" is gone.  Loss doesn't have to mean death.  But losses have to matter.  And not all "win" results are shiny.  Reading ASOIAF is shocking and compelling because main characters (PCs) die - and that's so highly unusual in our entertainment.  But at the game table, if Ned Stark's buddy just casts revivify within a minute and ol' Ned grabs a sword and fights his way free... well actually, ok, that might be pretty exciting!  Lemme try again.  Watching Star Trek (TOS), no matter what happens, when Kirk, Spock, and McCoy beam down to the surface, you KNOW that Kirk, Spock, and McCoy will all be beaming back up.  And that takes the suspense away.   [Final seasons and series finales, though... all bets are off, and it's exciting again!]</blockquote>

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