Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="loverdrive" data-source="post: 8962417" data-attributes="member: 7027139">More generally, here's a simple thing: challenge (in the context of RPGs: overcoming challenges by navigating a situation in Shared Imaginary Space effectively) and storytelling are fundamentally incompatible, and there's absolutely nothing that can be done to reconcile them.Challenge demands that the outcomes depend only on the decisions that players make. Defeating a dragon means defeating a dragon: arriving there prepared, getting a drop on the damn thing and leveraging abilities, items, terrain, whatever else to your advantage. If you employed Desert Storm levels of planning and stroke the beast before it could do anything, cool! It's GM's job to honour it. If you waltzed in beaten, bruised and bleeding, c'est la vie, you die, git gud.Storytelling demands that the outcomes are majorly influenced by the needs of the story. Defeating a dragon means earning a right to defeat a dragon. Which means having the character change, which means suffering and sacrifices. If you employed Desert Storm levels of planning and came up with a perfect plan, well, too bad, someone (maybe GM, but not necessarily) now has to invent a way for the things to get complicated and for PCs to suffer.You can't have both at the same time, something's gotta give. Anything you do to emphasize interesting stories that can stand on their own legs unavoidably harms the process of navigating a dangerous fictional world.N.B.: by &quot;challenge&quot; here I mean &quot;challenge&quot; in a &quot;B/X&quot; sense: navigating a dangerous fictional world by making decisions that would work in the confines of this dangerous fictional world, restricted in your influence to whatever a person in this dangerous fictional world can influence.Yes there's a challenge in managing Fate Points, and damn, many storytelling games have explicit victory conditions and scoring structure, but I feel like there's a sea of difference between outsmarting a dragon with your own wits and defeating a dragon by expending a karma resource.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="loverdrive, post: 8962417, member: 7027139"] More generally, here's a simple thing: challenge (in the context of RPGs: overcoming challenges by navigating a situation in Shared Imaginary Space effectively) and storytelling are fundamentally incompatible, and there's absolutely nothing that can be done to reconcile them. Challenge demands that the outcomes depend only on the decisions that players make. Defeating a dragon means defeating a dragon: arriving there prepared, getting a drop on the damn thing and leveraging abilities, items, terrain, whatever else to your advantage. If you employed Desert Storm levels of planning and stroke the beast before it could do anything, cool! It's GM's job to honour it. If you waltzed in beaten, bruised and bleeding, c'est la vie, you die, git gud. Storytelling demands that the outcomes are majorly influenced by the needs of the story. Defeating a dragon means earning a right to defeat a dragon. Which means having the character change, which means suffering and sacrifices. If you employed Desert Storm levels of planning and came up with a perfect plan, well, too bad, someone (maybe GM, but not necessarily) now has to invent a way for the things to get complicated and for PCs to suffer. You can't have both at the same time, something's gotta give. Anything you do to emphasize interesting stories that can stand on their own legs unavoidably harms the process of navigating a dangerous fictional world. N.B.: by "challenge" here I mean "challenge" in a "B/X" sense: navigating a dangerous fictional world by making decisions that would work in the confines of this dangerous fictional world, restricted in your influence to whatever a person in this dangerous fictional world can influence. Yes there's a challenge in managing Fate Points, and damn, many storytelling games have explicit victory conditions and scoring structure, but I feel like there's a sea of difference between outsmarting a dragon with your own wits and defeating a dragon by expending a karma resource. [/QUOTE]

Verification