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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8962881" data-attributes="member: 42582">It's a conclusion, not a premise.To me, this seems to go back to what I've been saying upthread: that what distinguishes purist-for-system simulationism (RQ, RM, C&S, some approaches to Traveller; as well as the impetus in D&D play to turn hp into wound/vitality, to turn AC into damage reduction, to revise falling damage or the rules for being damaged by a point-blank shot from a crossbow, etc) is that it aspires to make the content of the fiction, or at least certain key parts of the fiction - rather local elements of the fiction that flow from action declarations - knowable by application of the mechanics without the need for participant decision-making.This is what creates the "feel" of realism or objectivity that you're describing. It imposes (at least) two demands on resolution mechanics: they must actually do the job, of generating outcomes without the need for participant decision-making; and they must generate fiction. The problem with (eg) hit points is that while they meet the first of these desiderata, they notoriously don't meet the second. That's why all the purist-for-system RPGs eschew D&D-style hp (and AC, and saving throws, etc, etc).We know that high hit points, in D&D, correspond to two possibilities: you're a big lump of meat (a dragon, a giant slug, a huge dinosaur) or you're a skilled warrior (Conan, Aragorn, etc). Maybe a third possibility combines a bit of both, and/or magic (eg a Type V demon, perhaps a high level MU).Similarly, in 4e there are three types of minion:*The 1 hp represents feebleness or vulnerability (eg a Decrepit Skeleton); *The 1 hp represents a lack of skill or thread relative to the protagonists (eg a mid-paragon Ogre minion); *The 1 hp represents a type of "unluck" or "you're just set dressing" relative to the protagonists (eg an upper paragon frost giant minion mixed in among standard frost giants of much the same level).The first of these is conformable to the purist-for-system simulationist orientation - because the 1 hp generates an action resolution outcome (ie being cut down in a single blow, even if the blow is relatively weak) that reveals the intended fiction (ie this is, indeed, a decrepit skeleton).The second is conformable to the purist-for-system orientation at the moment of resolution, for a similar reason. But it violates that orientation at an earlier point, because it makes the game statistical description of the creature depend upon a premise about how it will be used in play (eg vs mid-paragon PCs), and that is too metagame for the purist-for-system orientation.The third is not conformable to the purist-for-system orientation at any point. It has the problem described just above; and even at the moment of resolution, the "dead in one blow" doesn't correspond to anything in the fiction - in the fiction the minion frost giant is as tough and sturdy as any other - but to a metagame decision about pacing, staging of the fight, etc.I personally don't know of a RPG design approach that can allow for mooks that fill all three of the 4e minion functions and that will satisfy the purist-for-system orientation. I think that it would need to be approached from a different angle. Eg you can get the second minion function in a RM-esque game by setting up your offence vs defence rules in such a way that Conan-level PCs vs mooks have sufficient surplus offence bonus that they get crit adjustment "overflows" that render the mook liable to die in a single blow. (But I don't see any way, even with a different approach, to get the third function - the distribution of "insta-kills" will depend on the luck of the crit dice, which don't respect pacing and staging.)</blockquote>

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