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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8966977" data-attributes="member: 6696971">[USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] points out how this appears to index Gamism (which is how I've historically seen GDS's S expressed in the past; hence my post).  I'd also say that I feel that there is a not-insignificant amount of confounding evidence...at least that I've seen...in design, commentary, and meta-commentary over the years... [USER=6690965]@Pedantic[/USER] certainly seems to be expressing G (challenge-based) priorities and S priorities that are not independent from one another...and there are large swaths of old school D&D cohorts that occupy that same philosophical space.But, again, like I outlined in my post, I'm no expert on the particulars of Simulationist priorities and I'm perfectly happy being corrected on the matter.  So lets go with what you're saying here; GDS's model for S was intended to be independent of either G or D and its purpose was exclusively "to create an imagined space that was consistent and seemed to represent world coherence" (as you've written above).If your purpose in Simulation is to create an imagined space that is consistent and represents world coherence while expressly being independent from Game priorities, then I have to assume that S objective is to fullfill immersionist priorities as in "the experiential quality of being there."So, if that is true, can you break down how that is meaningfully at odds with the GNS <a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/15/" target="_blank">The Right to Dream essay</a> which speaks directly to priorities around experiential consistency of exploration and internal logic of <whatever is being modelled and causally related/coupled>?  I'd rather not get sidetracked about how you personally feel about Edwards or his model overall so I hope we can stay on this specific point.If GDS's S is independent of G (challenge-based priorities), then how is it meaningfully different from GNS's S most fundamental essay (which pegs it as preoccupation with the priorities listed above which are alleged to be independent from G & N priorities)?  Or do you agree with The Right to Dream essay (forget the rest of it...lets focus on this) and that Edwards had this core component of S correct in this essay?If not...why...and what then is GDS's S...doing for the players and the experience of play?</blockquote>

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