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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5472339" data-attributes="member: 42582">I'm not entirely sure what we're talking about when we're looking for &quot;the sould of D&amp;D&quot;.Some of Mercurius's posts are fairly rich in metaphysical allusion. But if I approach this question as a genuinely metaphysical one, the difficulties to answering it quickly mount. First, there is the famous objection to the whole notion of essence run by Wittgenstein in his Philosophical Investigations. It strikes me as particularly telling that he makes his point with reference to the word &quot;game&quot;. Second, there is the problem of working out whether, by &quot;D&amp;D&quot;, we intend to refer to a collection of rulebooks, or a collection of gaming experiences, or some intersection of these two collections, or . . . Third, we have the problem that (it seems to me) for many people their gaming experience is intimately bound up with brand loyaltly to a particular trademark. Trying to work out what is common and constitutive across all this doesn't look easy to me.When I run a game using Rolemaster characters and Rolemaster action resolution but am reading maps and descriptiosn from Bastion of Broken Souls or the Freeport trilogy, am I playing D&amp;D? When I use Manual of the Planes (whatever edition) and Deities and Demigods/Legends and Lored (AD&amp;D 1st and 2nd editions) to help build a cosmology for the same game, am I playing D&amp;D? When I use rulebooks from HeroWars and Burning Wheel to teach me how to run skill challenges in a 4e game, am I playing D&amp;D?Runequest uses d20 (for hit location) as well as d100. It also uses polyhedral dice for weapon damage. AD&amp;D used d100 (for thief abilities, among other things) as well as d20.I can understand why Mike Mearls has an interest in trying to characterise and unify &quot;the D&amp;D experience&quot;. The whole raison d'etre of his job is to try to create such a thing.But I don't feel I have quite the same need. If I nevertheless persevered, and tried to identify what, for me, distinguishes D&amp;D from other fantasy RPGs, I would say its the gonzo in D&amp;D. But even this doesn't really work: (i) Tunnels and Trolls surely is as gonzo as D&amp;D; (ii) at least some people who like D&amp;D like it despite the gonzo, or play it so as to try to avoid or exclude the gonzo (and even I don't like to play up the gonzo very much); (iii) I've GMed sessions of Rolemaster with D&amp;D-style gonzo (such as when the lead fighter in the party jumped down a well only to land on top of some sort of ooze - convereted to RM from the 1st ed AD&amp;D Monster Manual - and have his armour and swords eaten away by acid).I'm just not sure that there is something uniquely defining and yet universal about D&amp;D.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5472339, member: 42582"] I'm not entirely sure what we're talking about when we're looking for "the sould of D&D". Some of Mercurius's posts are fairly rich in metaphysical allusion. But if I approach this question as a genuinely metaphysical one, the difficulties to answering it quickly mount. First, there is the famous objection to the whole notion of essence run by Wittgenstein in his [I]Philosophical Investigations[/I]. It strikes me as particularly telling that he makes his point with reference to the word "game". Second, there is the problem of working out whether, by "D&D", we intend to refer to a collection of rulebooks, or a collection of gaming experiences, or some intersection of these two collections, or . . . Third, we have the problem that (it seems to me) for many people their gaming experience is intimately bound up with brand loyaltly to a particular trademark. Trying to work out what is common and constitutive across all this doesn't look easy to me. When I run a game using Rolemaster characters and Rolemaster action resolution but am reading maps and descriptiosn from Bastion of Broken Souls or the Freeport trilogy, am I playing D&D? When I use Manual of the Planes (whatever edition) and Deities and Demigods/Legends and Lored (AD&D 1st and 2nd editions) to help build a cosmology for the same game, am I playing D&D? When I use rulebooks from HeroWars and Burning Wheel to teach me how to run skill challenges in a 4e game, am I playing D&D? Runequest uses d20 (for hit location) as well as d100. It also uses polyhedral dice for weapon damage. AD&D used d100 (for thief abilities, among other things) as well as d20. I can understand why Mike Mearls has an interest in trying to characterise and unify "the D&D experience". The whole raison d'etre of his job is to try to create such a thing. But I don't feel I have quite the same need. If I nevertheless persevered, and tried to identify what, for me, distinguishes D&D from other fantasy RPGs, I would say its the gonzo in D&D. But even this doesn't really work: (i) Tunnels and Trolls surely is as gonzo as D&D; (ii) at least some people who like D&D like it despite the gonzo, or play it so as to try to avoid or exclude the gonzo (and even I don't like to play up the gonzo very much); (iii) I've GMed sessions of Rolemaster with D&D-style gonzo (such as when the lead fighter in the party jumped down a well only to land on top of some sort of ooze - convereted to RM from the 1st ed AD&D Monster Manual - and have his armour and swords eaten away by acid). I'm just not sure that there is something uniquely defining and yet universal about D&D. [/QUOTE]

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