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<blockquote data-quote="Zinovia" data-source="post: 5464845" data-attributes="member: 57373">An interesting post that has caused me to reevaluate the level of challenge in my game. You are right to suggest that a prize too easily won has less value than something you have struggled to achieve. It may well be that I have been going a bit too easy on the group in some ways, but I can't raise the difficulty to the degree that you seem to be suggesting.&nbsp; It isn't just that I am running the game for my friends and don't want to hurt their feelings.&nbsp; In old school dungeon crawls characters were mercilessly slain by fierce monsters or step-and-die traps and replaced by new heroes rolled up on the spot.&nbsp; Now many people prefer to run ongoing campaigns where who the heroes are matters.&nbsp; They are integrally tied to the story.&nbsp; If one of them should fall, he can't be replaced by Ronan the barbarian who conveniently shows up wanting to join the party.&nbsp; Character creation also takes much longer than it did in those days, and players become very attached to their characters.&nbsp; Kill too many of them off, and you go from having characters with depth, background, and goals of their own to Bob the Fighter.&nbsp; Why should the players spend time or effort on a character that is likely to die at the hands of a merciless GM?&nbsp; Knowing they will likely die and have to reroll makes them put less effort into their characters.&nbsp; There is nothing wrong with a game where the GM is out to get the players, so long as he follows the basic rules, and gives them a chance, even if it is a small one.&nbsp; The key is that everyone needs to accept that style of game and the resultant character loss.&nbsp; It could be fun, just as it was fun to play through the no-holds barred Tomb of Horrors.&nbsp; The key there is that we never brought our regular campaign characters with years of play into that deathtrap.&nbsp; We made up some we had no emotional investment in, and let them suffer their fate.&nbsp; And, yes, I am proud that my character was one of two that survived, fleeing the dungeon after collapsing a huge swath of hallway between us and the demilich with a stone to mud spell.&nbsp; It was a fun experience and amazing challenge, but not everyday fare for all gamers.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Zinovia, post: 5464845, member: 57373"] An interesting post that has caused me to reevaluate the level of challenge in my game. You are right to suggest that a prize too easily won has less value than something you have struggled to achieve. It may well be that I have been going a bit too easy on the group in some ways, but I can't raise the difficulty to the degree that you seem to be suggesting. It isn't just that I am running the game for my friends and don't want to hurt their feelings. In old school dungeon crawls characters were mercilessly slain by fierce monsters or step-and-die traps and replaced by new heroes rolled up on the spot. Now many people prefer to run ongoing campaigns where who the heroes are matters. They are integrally tied to the story. If one of them should fall, he can't be replaced by Ronan the barbarian who conveniently shows up wanting to join the party. Character creation also takes much longer than it did in those days, and players become very attached to their characters. Kill too many of them off, and you go from having characters with depth, background, and goals of their own to Bob the Fighter. Why should the players spend time or effort on a character that is likely to die at the hands of a merciless GM? Knowing they will likely die and have to reroll makes them put less effort into their characters. There is nothing wrong with a game where the GM is out to get the players, so long as he follows the basic rules, and gives them a chance, even if it is a small one. The key is that everyone needs to accept that style of game and the resultant character loss. It could be fun, just as it was fun to play through the no-holds barred Tomb of Horrors. The key there is that we never brought our regular campaign characters with years of play into that deathtrap. We made up some we had no emotional investment in, and let them suffer their fate. And, yes, I am proud that my character was one of two that survived, fleeing the dungeon after collapsing a huge swath of hallway between us and the demilich with a stone to mud spell. It was a fun experience and amazing challenge, but not everyday fare for all gamers. [/QUOTE]

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