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<blockquote data-quote="Dragonwriter" data-source="post: 5641908" data-attributes="member: 54988"><p>Using the tools at my disposal is evil? More evil than setting a hydra on a tiny group of at-best 3rd-level PCs? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /> <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /> <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p>If/when this campaign reaches the 17th-level area, you'll be pulling out all the stops too, I'm quite sure. So far, experience has taught me the book-monsters are not as effective as they appear. Humanoids with class levels comparable to the PCs, specially-tailored monsters or groups of tough foes are the ones most capable of challenging a party. And the groups tactic can sometimes fail miserably.</p><p></p><p>[sblock=Example]</p><p>The previous adventure arc in my Monday game dealt with an invasion into elven lands by half-green dragon Orcs and Ettins. The standard Orcs all had levels in Warrior or Barbarian and were generally fairly tough, accurate and hard-hitting. Only trouble was, they were accurate up to a point. That point was 10 below more than half the party's AC (only the Wizard and Rogue could be hit reasonably). Even half-dragon Ettin Barbarians in the middle of a Rage could only hit on a 17 or better against the party's warriors (and often couldn't get around to the squishy mages) while getting made into pincushions and puddles of blood and flesh by blades, spears and arrows.</p><p>Even the blasted dragons I had set up for major bosses could only hit on a 15! (Or auto-kill the Wizard...)</p><p>I figured out ways to make things challenging anyway, while keeping the monsters I had worked so hard to make. Most of it involved environmental difficulties. Spellcaster support eventually helped even the odds (in favor of the monsters <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devil.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":devil:" title="Devil :devil:" data-shortname=":devil:" />).</p><p>[/sblock]</p><p></p><p>So finding other ways to hurt them and make them sweat became my goal for giving them a challenge. And now that the dragon plot is done with, I have other ways of hurting them with my new set of villains. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devil.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":devil:" title="Devil :devil:" data-shortname=":devil:" /> </p><p></p><p>They'll still have the chance to flee (and would probably be wise to take it), but I will always play my monsters to their own abilities. If that means tactical genius, that's what the party will face in the fight. The same is true in reverse - predator beasts will use rudimentary tactics (flanking at best), or goblins will just try to surround and stab-stab-stab. Intelligent enemies will make a tactical withdrawal/retreat, idiots will break and run in chaos. It all depends on what they are fighting at any given moment. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dragonwriter, post: 5641908, member: 54988"] Using the tools at my disposal is evil? More evil than setting a hydra on a tiny group of at-best 3rd-level PCs? :p :p :p If/when this campaign reaches the 17th-level area, you'll be pulling out all the stops too, I'm quite sure. So far, experience has taught me the book-monsters are not as effective as they appear. Humanoids with class levels comparable to the PCs, specially-tailored monsters or groups of tough foes are the ones most capable of challenging a party. And the groups tactic can sometimes fail miserably. [sblock=Example] The previous adventure arc in my Monday game dealt with an invasion into elven lands by half-green dragon Orcs and Ettins. The standard Orcs all had levels in Warrior or Barbarian and were generally fairly tough, accurate and hard-hitting. Only trouble was, they were accurate up to a point. That point was 10 below more than half the party's AC (only the Wizard and Rogue could be hit reasonably). Even half-dragon Ettin Barbarians in the middle of a Rage could only hit on a 17 or better against the party's warriors (and often couldn't get around to the squishy mages) while getting made into pincushions and puddles of blood and flesh by blades, spears and arrows. Even the blasted dragons I had set up for major bosses could only hit on a 15! (Or auto-kill the Wizard...) I figured out ways to make things challenging anyway, while keeping the monsters I had worked so hard to make. Most of it involved environmental difficulties. Spellcaster support eventually helped even the odds (in favor of the monsters :devil:). [/sblock] So finding other ways to hurt them and make them sweat became my goal for giving them a challenge. And now that the dragon plot is done with, I have other ways of hurting them with my new set of villains. :devil: They'll still have the chance to flee (and would probably be wise to take it), but I will always play my monsters to their own abilities. If that means tactical genius, that's what the party will face in the fight. The same is true in reverse - predator beasts will use rudimentary tactics (flanking at best), or goblins will just try to surround and stab-stab-stab. Intelligent enemies will make a tactical withdrawal/retreat, idiots will break and run in chaos. It all depends on what they are fighting at any given moment. :) [/QUOTE]
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