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<blockquote data-quote="Hriston" data-source="post: 7773133" data-attributes="member: 6787503"><p>That isn’t quite what I’m saying, though. Deciding how to resolve a player’s action declaration isn’t the same as simply matching it up with game mechanics. Besides, players usually have a pretty good idea of what mechanics they’re engaging when they act. If there’s a mismatch in expectations about what the rules are, then something like the following discussion may be necessary, but it isn’t ideal as an instance of play. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is all an example of the sort of conversation that might happen when player and DM need to get on the same page about what mechanics are going to be involved in resolving the player’s declared action, but it hasn’t progressed beyond establishing exactly what the player’s action declaration is. I.e., there is no resolution forthcoming from the DM in your example, but rather mechanics are being used to tell the player what his/her action declaration can or can’t be. Now, this DM is free to interpret the text of Shield Master that way. That isn’t at issue. What’s at issue is that the DM is bringing the rules in to modify the player’s action declaration before adjudicating a resolution. I don’t see that as an appropriate use of the rules in play, which is why I don’t think it matters whether the character’s shove is an action or a bonus action, because either way the resolution is the same.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And that’s a perfectly valid interpretation. What the official ruling doesn’t do, however, is overwrite the words in the books. It’s just an interpretation, not a rule. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But that isn’t a given. That’s your interpretation. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Right, well, I disagree with the compendium. That’s the point, isn’t it? It doesn’t do your argument any good to turn around and say, “But the compendium says...” I know what it says, and I disagree with it. What do you have to say about that? Also, I’ve never once said anything about declaring an action in order to “get” a bonus action, so it’s a waste of time telling me I can’t do that. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I’m actually very interested in the information Jeremy Crawford has put out about the game in general and about this feat specifically. I wouldn’t be participating in this thread if I wasn’t. That doesn’t mean I need to take everything he says as gospel truth. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But that isn’t what it does by anyone’s interpretation! You have to win a contest to gain advantage. It isn’t free!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That’s great, but he hasn’t said that. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is a great quote, and I think we have a case here of where the RAW and RAI don’t align perfectly. Unfortunately, there has been no RAI interpretation issued by Crawford for this feat. I think the closest we have is his tweet from 2015. The interpretation he has issued more recently has been based solely on RAW, which he has decided to read in the most literalistic fashion possible. I can only speculate about his reasons for this, but I imagine it’s driven by a desire at some level of the company to have a consistent product. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don’t need the compendium to tell me how the feat is supposed to work. The meaning I derive is quite simple and requires no gymnastics. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Who are you agreeing with? It certainly isn’t me! There’s very little trying involved actually. There’s certainly no need for me to ignore anything. I don’t think you understand my position and that it’s easier for you to be rude than have a productive conversation. Have a nice day.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hriston, post: 7773133, member: 6787503"] That isn’t quite what I’m saying, though. Deciding how to resolve a player’s action declaration isn’t the same as simply matching it up with game mechanics. Besides, players usually have a pretty good idea of what mechanics they’re engaging when they act. If there’s a mismatch in expectations about what the rules are, then something like the following discussion may be necessary, but it isn’t ideal as an instance of play. This is all an example of the sort of conversation that might happen when player and DM need to get on the same page about what mechanics are going to be involved in resolving the player’s declared action, but it hasn’t progressed beyond establishing exactly what the player’s action declaration is. I.e., there is no resolution forthcoming from the DM in your example, but rather mechanics are being used to tell the player what his/her action declaration can or can’t be. Now, this DM is free to interpret the text of Shield Master that way. That isn’t at issue. What’s at issue is that the DM is bringing the rules in to modify the player’s action declaration before adjudicating a resolution. I don’t see that as an appropriate use of the rules in play, which is why I don’t think it matters whether the character’s shove is an action or a bonus action, because either way the resolution is the same. And that’s a perfectly valid interpretation. What the official ruling doesn’t do, however, is overwrite the words in the books. It’s just an interpretation, not a rule. But that isn’t a given. That’s your interpretation. Right, well, I disagree with the compendium. That’s the point, isn’t it? It doesn’t do your argument any good to turn around and say, “But the compendium says...” I know what it says, and I disagree with it. What do you have to say about that? Also, I’ve never once said anything about declaring an action in order to “get” a bonus action, so it’s a waste of time telling me I can’t do that. I’m actually very interested in the information Jeremy Crawford has put out about the game in general and about this feat specifically. I wouldn’t be participating in this thread if I wasn’t. That doesn’t mean I need to take everything he says as gospel truth. But that isn’t what it does by anyone’s interpretation! You have to win a contest to gain advantage. It isn’t free! That’s great, but he hasn’t said that. This is a great quote, and I think we have a case here of where the RAW and RAI don’t align perfectly. Unfortunately, there has been no RAI interpretation issued by Crawford for this feat. I think the closest we have is his tweet from 2015. The interpretation he has issued more recently has been based solely on RAW, which he has decided to read in the most literalistic fashion possible. I can only speculate about his reasons for this, but I imagine it’s driven by a desire at some level of the company to have a consistent product. I don’t need the compendium to tell me how the feat is supposed to work. The meaning I derive is quite simple and requires no gymnastics. Who are you agreeing with? It certainly isn’t me! There’s very little trying involved actually. There’s certainly no need for me to ignore anything. I don’t think you understand my position and that it’s easier for you to be rude than have a productive conversation. Have a nice day. [/QUOTE]
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