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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7774826" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>I see how you're doing this, and that's great, I'm glad it works for you, but it's not how the rules read. You don't get to "you haven't not gained it yet" when you can't get a bonus action until given one. That's not how the rules work, although I see no serious issue to you ruling that way for your table.</p><p></p><p></p><p>No, because you're then skipping to the end to check the condition to apply the result to the beginning. Not how conditionals work. If X, Y requires X to be true either before or at the same time as Y, not that Y can exist so long as X eventually does.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Possibly, except we have another rule, the one that says you do not have a bonus action until given one. In that case, you cannot go to the bookstore (bonus action) because the bookstore doesn't exist until you take money out of the ATM. Okay, that example got weird, but still, that's how it works.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You cannot take a bonus action to shove until you've taken the Attack action on your turn. If X, Y means X cannot be a future event if Y occurs, it must be a current event.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The fact your interpretation jumps to the end of the turn to check if the Attack action has occurred and then goes back to earlier to allow the bonus action prior to the Attack action. Since you've been clear that declaration isn't how you do this, then you have to be allowing a end-of-turn check to justify the bonus action.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Did I miss something? What trouble did War Magic run into?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay, this is a pretty clear version of your reading, but it runs into a few problems. One, the Attack action does NOT grant the Shield Master shove, so whether or not it's a game feature is completely irrelevant. The conditional is built into the Shield Master feat, which is a class (or racial, for variant humans) feature. That conditional says that you only get the bonus action if you take that Attack action on your turn. So, you paraphrase is eliding very important information -- namely the conditional nature of the bonus action. You can't delete information and claim to be reading RAW, or RAI, for that matter. This entire tangent doesn't advance your case.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7774826, member: 16814"] I see how you're doing this, and that's great, I'm glad it works for you, but it's not how the rules read. You don't get to "you haven't not gained it yet" when you can't get a bonus action until given one. That's not how the rules work, although I see no serious issue to you ruling that way for your table. No, because you're then skipping to the end to check the condition to apply the result to the beginning. Not how conditionals work. If X, Y requires X to be true either before or at the same time as Y, not that Y can exist so long as X eventually does. Possibly, except we have another rule, the one that says you do not have a bonus action until given one. In that case, you cannot go to the bookstore (bonus action) because the bookstore doesn't exist until you take money out of the ATM. Okay, that example got weird, but still, that's how it works. You cannot take a bonus action to shove until you've taken the Attack action on your turn. If X, Y means X cannot be a future event if Y occurs, it must be a current event. The fact your interpretation jumps to the end of the turn to check if the Attack action has occurred and then goes back to earlier to allow the bonus action prior to the Attack action. Since you've been clear that declaration isn't how you do this, then you have to be allowing a end-of-turn check to justify the bonus action. Did I miss something? What trouble did War Magic run into? Okay, this is a pretty clear version of your reading, but it runs into a few problems. One, the Attack action does NOT grant the Shield Master shove, so whether or not it's a game feature is completely irrelevant. The conditional is built into the Shield Master feat, which is a class (or racial, for variant humans) feature. That conditional says that you only get the bonus action if you take that Attack action on your turn. So, you paraphrase is eliding very important information -- namely the conditional nature of the bonus action. You can't delete information and claim to be reading RAW, or RAI, for that matter. This entire tangent doesn't advance your case. [/QUOTE]
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