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<blockquote data-quote="Asgorath" data-source="post: 7775953" data-attributes="member: 6921966"><p>Or, you know, he's in charge of a rules system that has, you know, its own rules. It's a turn based game with reactions, which means each turn has to be played one step at a time. You can keep quoting Wikipedia all you like, but that doesn't change the fact that in the 5E rule system, conditions are a timing requirement because a reaction might prevent you from completing your turn. In a rules system for a game, you start with nothing and then add rules to allow you to do things. Sure, they could've used very formal logical language and statements like "if and only if you take the Attack action on your turn, after that action is fully resolved and until the end of your turn you can do Y" but the book would be bordering on unreadable. It certainly wouldn't cater to a more casual or newer player.</p><p></p><p>Let's imagine that Extra Attack doesn't exist. Let's imagine the Attack action means making an attack. Let's imagine that the Shield Master bonus action has the condition of taking the attack action. Let's imagine that reactions are a thing. It's quite logical that with these constraints, you have to actually make an attack before you can use the Shield Master bonus action, because if you do the bonus action first and someone uses a reaction to end your turn, you never make an attack on your turn. If you never took the Attack action on your turn, then why were you allowed to use the bonus action? Turns out that's exactly what JEC is saying, i.e. within the constraints of the 5E system these conditions do enforce a timing requirement or else the game can be left in an inconsistent state.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Asgorath, post: 7775953, member: 6921966"] Or, you know, he's in charge of a rules system that has, you know, its own rules. It's a turn based game with reactions, which means each turn has to be played one step at a time. You can keep quoting Wikipedia all you like, but that doesn't change the fact that in the 5E rule system, conditions are a timing requirement because a reaction might prevent you from completing your turn. In a rules system for a game, you start with nothing and then add rules to allow you to do things. Sure, they could've used very formal logical language and statements like "if and only if you take the Attack action on your turn, after that action is fully resolved and until the end of your turn you can do Y" but the book would be bordering on unreadable. It certainly wouldn't cater to a more casual or newer player. Let's imagine that Extra Attack doesn't exist. Let's imagine the Attack action means making an attack. Let's imagine that the Shield Master bonus action has the condition of taking the attack action. Let's imagine that reactions are a thing. It's quite logical that with these constraints, you have to actually make an attack before you can use the Shield Master bonus action, because if you do the bonus action first and someone uses a reaction to end your turn, you never make an attack on your turn. If you never took the Attack action on your turn, then why were you allowed to use the bonus action? Turns out that's exactly what JEC is saying, i.e. within the constraints of the 5E system these conditions do enforce a timing requirement or else the game can be left in an inconsistent state. [/QUOTE]
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