Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Official DnD, D20, and OGL - who are you?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="The Sigil" data-source="post: 1383770" data-attributes="member: 2013"><p>Wildly radical, myself.</p><p></p><p>Anything in the three core books/SRD is "acceptable." Magic of Faerun is acceptable in part. <strong>All</strong> other WotC products to this point (though UA may become the notable exception) are "Right Out" - because everything in them has, more or less, been done better (IMO) by 3rd party publishers!</p><p></p><p>I probably use more "3rd party" material by a 5:1 margin than WotC material.</p><p></p><p>Of course, UA appears to have quite a bit of good stuff in it, so I may allow it in as well, which will cut down the 5:1 margin some.</p><p></p><p>Specific items I think have been truly inspired/brilliant strokes from 3rd-party publishers:</p><p></p><p>1.) Second World Simulations' Master of Arms - The way "combination moves" are handled.</p><p></p><p>2.) Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed - The spell preparation technique - spontaneous casting like a sorcerer, but your "known spells" can be shifted daily.</p><p></p><p>3.) Mongoose's Quintessential Fighter (revision) and Encyclopedia Arcane: Elementalism - "Demilevels" - rather than full-fledged character classes, you have a 5-level "Semiclass" for which XP is directly expended to gain extra special abilities (call them "Fighting Styles" in QF, "Circles" in EA:E). This was independently developed by several other publishers nearly simultaneously, but IIRC, Mongoose published them first.</p><p></p><p>4.) FFG's Spells & Spellcraft - Adding special abilities to your familiar (also appears in their $4.95 Masterwork Collection). A MUST for anyone who has a familiar</p><p></p><p>5.) FFG's Path of... Series - Legendary Classes and the associated Legendary Abilities (one ability per level, the ability's "power" is tied to the level when you originally take it)</p><p></p><p>6.) Thunderhead/Mystic Eye Games - "Adjustment Boxes" to adjust/scale encounters to handle a party of a different makeup than Fighter/Wizard/Cleric/Rogue.</p><p></p><p>7.) Malhavoc Press' Book of Eldritch Might - Not for the content, per se, but for basically creating the electronic publishing industry (which has had some absolute gems in its own right).</p><p></p><p>8.) Sword & Sorcery Studios' Relics & Rituals - Rules for Ritual Magic</p><p></p><p>9.) Green Ronin Studios' Hammer & Helm - First book of which I know that introduced the concept of Bloodlines/Feats that grant special powers.</p><p></p><p>10.) FFG's Mythic Races - First book of which I know that included something that very much resembles "ECL adjustments" as we know them today.</p><p></p><p>I'm not saying every one of these products is universally fantastic in its own right, but I think these 10 ideas I noted above were gigantic steps forward for RPGs and certainly improvements on aspects of the "Core" d20 system. These all get mention for doing things "first" or simply "better." To limit oneself to WotC only really limits your creative avenues, as many of the ideas in Unearthed Arcana are essentially derived from/inspired by the above works.</p><p></p><p>Everyone else will have their own favorite 3rd-party bits, I'm sure, but I would suggest that you show these 10 "bits" (well, 9, I guess... #7 is a bit dodgy as "rules" go). Compare them to the rules (or lack thereof) for similar things from WotC (note publication dates where these are "Firsts" instead of "Betters"). If that doesn't convince someone that WotC is not, cannot, and should not be the "End All Be All" of game design companies, well, there's really not much more you can do.</p><p></p><p>--The Sigil</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Sigil, post: 1383770, member: 2013"] Wildly radical, myself. Anything in the three core books/SRD is "acceptable." Magic of Faerun is acceptable in part. [b]All[/b] other WotC products to this point (though UA may become the notable exception) are "Right Out" - because everything in them has, more or less, been done better (IMO) by 3rd party publishers! I probably use more "3rd party" material by a 5:1 margin than WotC material. Of course, UA appears to have quite a bit of good stuff in it, so I may allow it in as well, which will cut down the 5:1 margin some. Specific items I think have been truly inspired/brilliant strokes from 3rd-party publishers: 1.) Second World Simulations' Master of Arms - The way "combination moves" are handled. 2.) Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed - The spell preparation technique - spontaneous casting like a sorcerer, but your "known spells" can be shifted daily. 3.) Mongoose's Quintessential Fighter (revision) and Encyclopedia Arcane: Elementalism - "Demilevels" - rather than full-fledged character classes, you have a 5-level "Semiclass" for which XP is directly expended to gain extra special abilities (call them "Fighting Styles" in QF, "Circles" in EA:E). This was independently developed by several other publishers nearly simultaneously, but IIRC, Mongoose published them first. 4.) FFG's Spells & Spellcraft - Adding special abilities to your familiar (also appears in their $4.95 Masterwork Collection). A MUST for anyone who has a familiar 5.) FFG's Path of... Series - Legendary Classes and the associated Legendary Abilities (one ability per level, the ability's "power" is tied to the level when you originally take it) 6.) Thunderhead/Mystic Eye Games - "Adjustment Boxes" to adjust/scale encounters to handle a party of a different makeup than Fighter/Wizard/Cleric/Rogue. 7.) Malhavoc Press' Book of Eldritch Might - Not for the content, per se, but for basically creating the electronic publishing industry (which has had some absolute gems in its own right). 8.) Sword & Sorcery Studios' Relics & Rituals - Rules for Ritual Magic 9.) Green Ronin Studios' Hammer & Helm - First book of which I know that introduced the concept of Bloodlines/Feats that grant special powers. 10.) FFG's Mythic Races - First book of which I know that included something that very much resembles "ECL adjustments" as we know them today. I'm not saying every one of these products is universally fantastic in its own right, but I think these 10 ideas I noted above were gigantic steps forward for RPGs and certainly improvements on aspects of the "Core" d20 system. These all get mention for doing things "first" or simply "better." To limit oneself to WotC only really limits your creative avenues, as many of the ideas in Unearthed Arcana are essentially derived from/inspired by the above works. Everyone else will have their own favorite 3rd-party bits, I'm sure, but I would suggest that you show these 10 "bits" (well, 9, I guess... #7 is a bit dodgy as "rules" go). Compare them to the rules (or lack thereof) for similar things from WotC (note publication dates where these are "Firsts" instead of "Betters"). If that doesn't convince someone that WotC is not, cannot, and should not be the "End All Be All" of game design companies, well, there's really not much more you can do. --The Sigil [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Official DnD, D20, and OGL - who are you?
Top