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Message: <blockquote data-quote="justanobody" data-source="post: 4523718" data-attributes="member: 70778">Yes and no. The same number of minis were made as were made, the thing is how they got out there. Secondary market was cheaper to get thing vs boosters at local stores. Local stores are becoming a thing of the past because of all the overhead that online stores don't always have. More people went for more of the cheaper online minis, and local stores couldn't compete to sell them and had fewer people buying so fewer people playing in the stores for the skirmish games.IF the stores had any chance to compete with online retailers then it would have helped, but they cannot afford to just sell locally for packs or singles.So it was more the availability in this day and age and the fact the people weren't buying JUST the random packs.Think 10 years back and they would probably still be selling slowly as people tried to get some as they were not available in all locations, but now people could get what they wanted quicker, for those who could afford to, and then stopped buying when they got what they needed.As with all collectible games, the minis did come out quicker than normal people could afford to buy and keep up, and the concept of type 2.0 that rotated sets out put people off because minis are much more expensive than cards to keep up with and store or try to resale for those who didn't collect and packrat minis.It was the same with Mage Knight and every other CMG since that sets came out before people could keep up, and the system burnt out for the masses. The biggest problem was the collectible aspect and not being able to get what you want. Collectible games other than CCGs are declining because the cost of thing are too great except for cards."Hey I just spent $26 on a booster pack and got nothing worth a flip to show for it! Done wasting my money!"Games Workshop has been going difficult, for still going for decades because you can get EXACTLY what you want, which the PC Heroes will help with now, but the game is already dead to help skirmish.If the hang-ups with SKUs and collectibility was thrown away them there could have been a greater chance to make money and a popular game.you could even keep the rarity base with painting and cost models by making only 3 SKUs per set. Give away the rules for free to anyone who needs it, make a DDM set of maps as a product (Fantastic Locations), and sell the minis singles based on rarity.Common, $1Uncommon, $2Rare, $3People would eat up minis like candy where I am if they were sold like that.Make the cases to the stores random then.120 minis per case60 commons40 uncommons20 raresThis would have kept the secondary markets from taking over the local stores profits with the cheaper minis and higher price singles.Once people stopped buying X mini, they could have been offered as prize support for non-sanctioned tournaments, of the store owner could bundle the singles as a discount encounter package offer to get rid of the ones that not everyone wants to buy as singles anymore.So I don't think it all about too many minis, but too many of ones people didn't want, and not enough of the others to go around for both uses of them. RPG players don't care that a beholder is rare and costs $50, nor should they be expected to pay it just to be able to use one in their games while that big Mammoth minis that takes more plastic costs 1/3 of the price.Collectibility and availability of certain minis did the most damage.I have me an umberhulk and didn't need to spend $70 to get the Delver.I still think there will be problems similar with the new model in how RPGers actually want minis as can be sen with the need to buy random packs of monsters, this still doesn't help RPG games, only players. Once players have their mini, what more do they need with no game to use them for?So I am watching for cheap minis now from disgruntled skirmish players at online auction sites to compelte some standard encounter needs.</blockquote>

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