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<blockquote data-quote="RyvenCedrylle" data-source="post: 4392380" data-attributes="member: 66726">Let's also acknowledge the elephant in this room - believability.&nbsp; While a 2nd or 3rd ed (even 1st, for those still playing it) escape from prison was sort of a nebulous thing to DM - what are the rolls?&nbsp; how good do they have to be? - the completion didn't feel strange.&nbsp; You escaped when you made it to the door and got out.&nbsp;Now in 4th ed, we have a (theoretically) well calculated set of DCs and a nice skill check success/failure framework, but now the escape seems off.&nbsp; I escape after I make 6 successful checks,&nbsp; no matter where I am in-game reative to the exit.&nbsp;&nbsp; My thought as a player is no longer really getting out&nbsp; - it's counting my success ratio.&nbsp; At least Obsidian pulls the fear of failures out of it for the players but the continuity is still disjointed.&nbsp; &quot;I need to leave!&quot; versus &quot;I need 6 successes!&quot; or even &quot;How many successes do I need?&quot; is a subtle but important difference.&nbsp;Perhaps the better solution is not to count successes and failures of individual rolls, but of broader tasks.&nbsp; In the prison break scenario, the 4/2 success/failure ratio might mean you have to accomplish 4 of the following tasks before you fail 2 (and this is just off the cuff here)&nbsp;*Pick your cell lock*Steal a key*Create a diversion*Bribe/blackmail a guard*Obtain disguises*Petition for pardon*Arrange for help*Defeat 3 guards in combat&nbsp;and then determine the success of each task with one or two skill checks.&nbsp; Or combat <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="RyvenCedrylle, post: 4392380, member: 66726"] Let's also acknowledge the elephant in this room - believability. While a 2nd or 3rd ed (even 1st, for those still playing it) escape from prison was sort of a nebulous thing to DM - what are the rolls? how good do they have to be? - the completion didn't feel strange. You escaped when you made it to the door and got out. Now in 4th ed, we have a (theoretically) well calculated set of DCs and a nice skill check success/failure framework, but now the escape seems off. I escape after I make 6 successful checks, no matter where I am in-game reative to the exit. My thought as a player is no longer really getting out - it's counting my success ratio. At least Obsidian pulls the fear of failures out of it for the players but the continuity is still disjointed. "I need to leave!" versus "I need 6 successes!" or even "How many successes do I need?" is a subtle but important difference. Perhaps the better solution is not to count successes and failures of individual rolls, but of broader tasks. In the prison break scenario, the 4/2 success/failure ratio might mean you have to accomplish 4 of the following tasks before you fail 2 (and this is just off the cuff here) *Pick your cell lock *Steal a key *Create a diversion *Bribe/blackmail a guard *Obtain disguises *Petition for pardon *Arrange for help *Defeat 3 guards in combat and then determine the success of each task with one or two skill checks. Or combat :) [/QUOTE]

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