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<blockquote data-quote="Harr" data-source="post: 4577397" data-attributes="member: 47190">From the Concealment rules box in page 281 of the PHB, creatures need to be non-adjacent to each other to qualify to have total concealment from one another:This is consistent with the &quot;trace lines from one corner of the attacke's square to all corners of the target's square&quot; method, interpreting that adjacent corners aren't blocked since there's no space between them... So even if they're in the cloud, if they are adjacent they are only concealed from one another, not totally concealed.(Edit -&gt; Well, I guess it would depend on whether you interpret the cloud as being &quot;totally&quot; obscured instead of &quot;heavily&quot; obscured, but I wouldn't, it's described as steam-like, I don't think steam TOTALLY obscures vision like pitch darkness would... more like a heavy smoky obscurement.)(Later Edit -&gt; After reading all those rules together with the DMG errata for that section... this is just another gaffe from WotC with rules clarity and execution. What those powers like Stinking Cloud and Wall of Fog SHOULD be telling you is simply whether the zone they create is Lightly, Heavily or Totally Obscured, NOT whether they &quot;block line of sight&quot; or &quot;grant concealment&quot; or whatever. It looks like one camp of rules writers interpreted the issue one way, and at least one other camp interpreted it another way, and they both got their own interpretation into the books in a different place or within different powers, and the discrepancies were not culled in editing. Until that gets fixed or if it ever does get fixed, you just have to decide for yourself what &quot;type&quot; of obscurement it is and use the rule on page 281 to apply it. I would say Stinking Cloud = either heavy or light, but definitely not total.)You're probably right about the forcing movement not triggering the damage, though I can't find any rule about that specifically. But if you look at page 285, Forced movement 1) does not trigger opportunity attacks, 2) is not hindered or affected by difficult terrain, and 3) does not count as a move against the target's speed... from these three I think it's pretty sfae to conclude that forced movement is NOT meant to trigger stuff like Stinking Cloud's damage, or any zone-entering harmful effects in general.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Harr, post: 4577397, member: 47190"] From the Concealment rules box in page 281 of the PHB, creatures need to be non-adjacent to each other to qualify to have total concealment from one another: This is consistent with the "trace lines from one corner of the attacke's square to all corners of the target's square" method, interpreting that adjacent corners aren't blocked since there's no space between them... So even if they're in the cloud, if they are adjacent they are only concealed from one another, not totally concealed. (Edit -> Well, I guess it would depend on whether you interpret the cloud as being "totally" obscured instead of "heavily" obscured, but I wouldn't, it's described as steam-like, I don't think steam TOTALLY obscures vision like pitch darkness would... more like a heavy smoky obscurement.) (Later Edit -> After reading all those rules together with the DMG errata for that section... this is just another gaffe from WotC with rules clarity and execution. What those powers like Stinking Cloud and Wall of Fog SHOULD be telling you is simply whether the zone they create is Lightly, Heavily or Totally Obscured, NOT whether they "block line of sight" or "grant concealment" or whatever. It looks like one camp of rules writers interpreted the issue one way, and at least one other camp interpreted it another way, and they both got their own interpretation into the books in a different place or within different powers, and the discrepancies were not culled in editing. Until that gets fixed or if it ever does get fixed, you just have to decide for yourself what "type" of obscurement it is and use the rule on page 281 to apply it. I would say Stinking Cloud = either heavy or light, but definitely not total.) You're probably right about the forcing movement not triggering the damage, though I can't find any rule about that specifically. But if you look at page 285, Forced movement 1) does not trigger opportunity attacks, 2) is not hindered or affected by difficult terrain, and 3) does not count as a move against the target's speed... from these three I think it's pretty sfae to conclude that forced movement is NOT meant to trigger stuff like Stinking Cloud's damage, or any zone-entering harmful effects in general. [/QUOTE]

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