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<blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 4577676" data-attributes="member: 3146">I think Tony is right about most of the rules, but I think it's pretty clear cut that entering the cloud causes damage whether or not the movement is voluntary.There is no general rule about forced movement into damaging terrain not causing damage. In fact, the general rule that creatures about to be forced into damaging terrain get a saving throw to fall prone and avoid going into the damaging terrain implies very strongly that the general rule is that creatures can take damage from being forced into hazards or zones.There is no need to keep track of whether or not a monster already took damage. If the creature was pushed into the cloud, it takes damage from entering the cloud (one of the explicit conditions under which the spell deals damage). If that creature then begins its turn in the cloud, it takes damage again since it meets the condition for taking damage--begins its turn inside the cloud.If you are concerned about manuevers that push a foe into, out of and back into the cloud doing damage more than once per push, it would seem perfectly reasonable to rule that a creature only enters the cloud once per movement--so if you push him in and out and in and out, he still only takes damage once, but if you push him through the cloud (in and out once) and the fighter then pushes the monster back into the cloud, it takes damage twice. Is there potential to exploit this tactic? There is certainly some potential to do so. Is that necessarily a bad thing? I don't think so. Combinations of powers from the same and different characters is what makes 4th edition interesting. Otherwise it would simply be using the same powers in the same order every encounter.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Elder-Basilisk, post: 4577676, member: 3146"] I think Tony is right about most of the rules, but I think it's pretty clear cut that entering the cloud causes damage whether or not the movement is voluntary. There is no general rule about forced movement into damaging terrain not causing damage. In fact, the general rule that creatures about to be forced into damaging terrain get a saving throw to fall prone and avoid going into the damaging terrain implies very strongly that the general rule is that creatures [i]can[/i] take damage from being forced into hazards or zones. There is no need to keep track of whether or not a monster already took damage. If the creature was pushed into the cloud, it takes damage from entering the cloud (one of the explicit conditions under which the spell deals damage). If that creature then begins its turn in the cloud, it takes damage again since it meets the condition for taking damage--begins its turn inside the cloud. If you are concerned about manuevers that push a foe into, out of and back into the cloud doing damage more than once per push, it would seem perfectly reasonable to rule that a creature only enters the cloud once per movement--so if you push him in and out and in and out, he still only takes damage once, but if you push him through the cloud (in and out once) and the fighter then pushes the monster back into the cloud, it takes damage twice. Is there potential to exploit this tactic? There is certainly some potential to do so. Is that necessarily a bad thing? I don't think so. Combinations of powers from the same and different characters is what makes 4th edition interesting. Otherwise it would simply be using the same powers in the same order every encounter. [/QUOTE]

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