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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Koewn" data-source="post: 1742779" data-attributes="member: 13172">Ever since I was informed that a "Mob" Subtype exists in Dungeon 113, I've been enamored with the idea; since I'm needing something like that for my next session.In response to some questions I had about how a Zombie mob would work, I've had to completely rethink how they'd work. I think I've found a better solution, albiet more challenging. My original work is in the small text quoted below.I've completely redone some things, based on the questions I've gotten here. I had no good way to deal with the individuals of the mob, which is important when you're talking about villagers or manes or zombies, as opposed to bats and rats and wasps.I'll list out the Mob Type here, and my reasonings will be in italics. Below, will be a few example mobs. If anyone had seen the previous posts, they'll notice they've really gone up in apparent power - my original effort was simply renamed swarms, and had no real 'oomph' to it (that you'd expect an angry mob to have)---A Mob is a single pool of creatures that act as one. A Mob can be consisted of Small or Medium creatures, and a single mob consists of 30 creatures. The Mob takes up a square 20 ft on a side, but is fluid, and can take any shape of contiguous squares, just lke a swarm.The 30 creatures==Mob will be important later. There's about 2 creatures for every square in a Mob.A Mob has a reach of zero feet. To attack, it must engulf it's target, provoking an AoO. Every time a Mob moves through an enemy-occupied square, it provokes an AoO. Mobs cannot be tripped, grappled, or bull rushed. A critical hit that would do sufficient damage to eliminate a single constituent creature of the mob "eliminates a Mob member", as detailed below.I can see a critical removing a single mob member, but I don't see flanking/sneak attacking working, whether the rogue is inside the mob or outside.A Mob takes half damage from single-target damage spells, and one-and-a-half times damage from area of effect damage spells. Other spells and effects that may disable, disband, or kill a single Mob member will "eliminate a Mob member", as detailed below.A Scorching Ray might glance through 5 or 6 people as it passes through the mass, but the sheer number of people in a small area make Fireballs more fun.A Mob acts as if it had the Improved Bull Rush and Improved Overrun feats. Once the Mob is dispersed, the single creatures do not retain these feats.Eliminating a Mob Member: An attack, spell, or effect that would eliminate a Mob member (such as Turn Undead vs a Zombie Mob) will break off the number of singular creatures affected into single creatures (if they are not killed or destroyed). The Mob itself takes 2 negative levels (subtract 2 from it's Hit Die) per HD of the original member (Subtract 4 from the HD of a mob consisting of 2 HD Gnolls). This negative level does not effect the Mob's abilities or attacks in any way. A Mob that reaches 0 HD is dispersed into it's constituent creatures.Originally, I said, "Subtract a number of HP equal to one of the mob's creature's HP total", but subtracting a Hit Die is the same thing, no? By subtracting 2 HD instead of 1, the Mob is dispersed when it's at about half strength.Persistant Mob: A Persistant Mob is a Mob that will not halt combat once it has been dispersed, such as mindless undead. A Mob that is reduced to 0 HP is dispersed into 10 singular creatures, placed randomly or at the DM's discretion. A Mob stopped by Hit Die loss is dispersed into 10 creatures, placed randomly or at the DM's discretion.As a rule of thumb, if detailed information is needed on the status of Mob members after the mob is dispersed by damage, 10 will be alive, 10 disabled/dying, and 10 dead.---Samples!Angry Mob of Villagers (AMoV)Gargantuan Humanoid (Mob)Giving it Gargantuan size for it's 20ft spacing helps with Grappling. Mobs are good at that!CR: 8?HD: 30d8 (120 HP)Init: +0Speed: 30 ftAC: 10 (Touch 10, Flatfooted 10)Base Attack/Grapple: +25/+37Attack: Pitchforks and Torches +25 (3d6)Full Attack: Pitchforks and Torches +25/+20 (3d6)You'll notice on the attack lines, I'm treating this kinda like an actual 30 HD creature, and getting rid of the 'automatic attack'. A high-level, high-AC PC should be able to duck and weave through a mob.Saves: Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +10Mob mentality boosts their Will saves.Abilities: Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Wis 10, Int 10, Chr 10Special Qualities: Torches!, "There it is!", "Let's Git'em!", Pile-onAn Angry Mob of Villagers is often encountered in towns beset by experimenting (and often mad) wizards and their creations.Torches!: Half of an AMoV's damage is fire damage from their torches."There it is!": An AMoV gains an extra +10 to hit and 3d6 damage against constructs and aberrations."Let's Git'em!": Single humanoids must make a DC 14 Will save or be caught up in the mob. For every 2 humanoids that join the mob, the mob gains 1 HD (4 HP), +1 Attack, and +1 damage.Pile-on: A mob that successfully grapples an opponent of Large or smaller size deals automatic damage each round the opponent is grappled. A mob can grapple 2 Large, 8 Medium, 16 Small, or 32 Tiny or smaller creatures at once, and may move normally while doing so.In general, much more dangerous. This is a real mob that will tear apart unprepared opponents. A Flesh Golem, an AMoV's favored enemy (so to speak) won't last given average HP and damage, it looks.---Let's redo the Manes, as well:Mobbing Pack of Manes (MPoM)Gargantuan Outsider (Chaotic, Evil, Extraplanar, Tanar'ri, Mob, Persistant)CR: 10?HD: 30d8 (120 HP)Init: +0Speed: 20 ftAC: 10 (Touch 10, Flatfooted 10)Base Attack/Grapple: +25/+37Attack: Claws +25 (2d6)Full Attack: 2 Claws +25 (2d4) and Bite +20 (2d6)Saves: Fort +2, Ref +2, Will -2Abilities: Str 10, Dex 10, Con 11, Int -, Wis 3, Chr 3Special Attacks: Death ThroesSpecial Qualities: DR 3/cold iron or good, darkvision 60ft, immunity to electricity and poison, mindless, resistance to acid, cold, fire 10, telepathy 100 ft., Persistant Mob, Pile-OnDeath Throes: Every attack doing over 10 points of damage kills a member of the MPoM for every 10 points it does. Everyone within 10 ft of the killed individuals (DM discretion) takes 1d6 points of acid damage (Reflex DC 10 half) as the body erupts into a cloud of acidic vapor. Every member killed reduces the MPoM's HD by 2, as per the 'Eliminating a Mob Member' text.Persistant Mob: A persistant mob continues to fight after dispersed; see the Mob type entry for details.Pile-on: A mob that successfully grapples an opponent of Large or smaller size deals automatic damage each round the opponent is grappled. A mob can grapple 2 Large, 8 Medium, 16 Small, or 32 Tiny or smaller creatures at once, and may move normally while doing so.Again, thanks to Pants for the converted Manes!---Here's Zombies for Matafuego:Horde of Zombies (HoZ)Gargantuan Undead (Mob, Persistant)CR: 6? HD: 30d12 (180 HP)Init: +0Speed: 20 ftAC: 11 (Touch 9, Flatfooted 11)Base Attack/Grapple: +17/+29Attack: Slam +17 (2d8+8)Full Attack: Slam +17 (2d8+8)I decided to up the damage from the Strength modifier for Mobs.Saves: Fort +0, Ref -1, Will +3Abilities: Str 12, Dex 8, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Chr 1Special Attacks: Braaaiinnns!Special Qualities: DR 5/slashing, Darkvision 60 ft, Undead Traits,Persistant Mob, Pile-OnBraaaiinns!: A Zombie mob can attack an opponent it has engulfed even if it also moves in the same turn. (individual zombies have the Single Actions Only trait).Persistant Mob: A persistant mob continues to fight after dispersed; see the Mob type entry for details.Pile-on: A mob that successfully grapples an opponent of Large or smaller size deals automatic damage each round the opponent is grappled. A mob can grapple 2 Large, 8 Medium, 16 Small, or 32 Tiny or smaller creatures at once, and may move normally while doing so.---And Evilhalfling's Bandit Mob with the new ideas:Road Bandit Mob (RBM)Gargantuan Humanoid (Mob)CR: 12?HD: 30d8+30 (150 HP)Init: +1Speed: 30 ftAC: 13 (Touch 12, Flatfooted 12)Base Attack/Grapple: +30/+42Attack: Swords +30 (3d8+8)Full Attack: Swords +30 (3d8+8)Saves: Fort +3, Ref +3, Will +8Abilities: Str 13, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 10, Chr 11Special Attacks: Arrow StormSpecial Qualities: Woodland Movement, Pile-OnArrow Storm: As a full-round attack, the RBM may fire a hail of arrows at a spot on the battlefield. This attack does 6d6 piercing damage in a 20 ft radius spread, at a range of up to 100 ft. (DC 15 Reflex save for half). Woodland Movement: A RBM can move through non-magical foliage at  full speed.Pile-on: A mob that successfully grapples an opponent of Large or smaller size deals automatic damage each round the opponent is grappled. A mob can grapple 2 Large, 8 Medium, 16 Small, or 32 Tiny or smaller creatures  at once, and may move normally while doing so.---I got me a Rock'n Roll Band:Medium Earth Elemental Mob (MEEM)Gargantuan Outsider (Mob, Extraplanar, Earth)CR: A Lot.HD: 120d8+360 (840 HP)  (holy moly!)Init: -1Speed: 20 ftAC: 18 (-1 Dex, +9 Natural), touch 9, flatfooted 18BAB/Grapple: +21/+34Attack: Slam +21 Melee 4d8+20Full Attack: Slam +21 Melee 4d8+20Saves: Fort +7, Ref +0, Will +1Abilities: Str 21, Dex 8, Con 17, Int 4, Wis 11, Cha 11Special Attacks: Earth Mastery, Push, GrindSpecial Qualities: Elemental Traits. Darkvision 60, Earth GlideNo-one knows what occasionally causes elementals to band together into such acohesive unit, but it may be a mystery better left alone, as even the smallestof elementals are a force to be reckoned with when moving as one.Earth Mastery, Push, Earth Glide: As stated in the SRD.Grind: Being caught in a mass of moving, grinding, writhing, live earthis a terrible thing. If an opponent is engulfed by a MEEM and successfullyPinned, they take double damage automatically each round until unpinned.I don't even know what CR this is. Yea, it's a lot of HP. Medium EarthElementals are 4d8, so, times 30...eh. It could be cut in half easily Isuppose.Fire Elementals would have the Immolate ability just like this, WaterElementals the Drown, and Air Elementals Tornado. The Air needsa better name.This'd be a heck of an Epic Level Summon.---So, hopefully this is better. It's certainly more dangerous and powerful, which is what mobs should be. Plus, it gives a mechanic to send out 30 mooks  against a mid-level party at a single CR 9 rather than 30 CR 1s, which I thinkcuts down the XP handed out.Again, thanks for reading. Let me know if you use them, and how it went!Koewn</blockquote>

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