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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Koewn" data-source="post: 1838808" data-attributes="member: 13172">Ah! Good catch, and an interesting point. Plus, anyone that comes in, looks at a monster write-up, and says, "You know, I think I'd use a catapult on that." is my sort of player.The reason I moved the size categories the way I did (you'll note Swarms are listed as the size of their component creatures) is that I wanted that super Grapple bonus. While I could cheat and relist everyone as Medium/Small, and make a 'Mob Grapple Bonus' entry, well, let's see how it feels the other way.Touch AC's are used for touch attacks and rays, maybe some other stuff. I agree that a wizard shooting a ray or slapping a Shocking Grasp into a mob, whether the wizard be engulfed or not, would be a tad easier. Certainly -4 easier (-4 being the Gargantuan AC penalty). Most other touch attacks, the Mob is immune to.Normal and Flatfooted AC - they're about the same thing, for this situation. Now when I'm envisioning a sword swing against the Mob, I'm assuming that the PC is trying to make contact and hit somebody. That would indicate that we'd treat AC normally in that case.However, the case can be made that when engulfed, or faced with a 'wall of people', that same fighter could just swing wildly and probably hit something, and chances are it'd be an effective hit - but only against unarmored opponents - one thing AC is trying to simulate is the issue of getting through armor for a hit, and a wild swing is just as likely to glance off 5 guy's breastplates before it makes a solid connect. If that opinion holds water, the easiest thing to do would be to relist the Mobs as the size of their component creatures, give them a 'Mob Grapple Bonus', and a 'Mob Touch AC Penalty'. Keeping as is and giving a 'Mob AC Bonus' to Normal/Flat ACs is more clunky, I think, since a 'Mob AC Bonus' makes no literal sense - telling someone they grapple better but are more easily touched as a mob does.Let me know if that makes sense, Fieari, with your thought train on the issue.Thanks! (oh, at first glance, I like the Dischordant Voices; I'm short on time for a full comment, but quick question - are there stats for the sigular creature once they're dispersed?)Koewn</blockquote>

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