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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Uder" data-source="post: 5189623" data-attributes="member: 11949">All of that makes sense. The Ogre Mage needs a couple more hit dice and another damage-dealing ranged power or two (or another use of Cone of Cold) to hang with the CR8 critters - and even some of the CR7 ones. Once you buff him up though, he becomes more isolated from the niche that Mearls mentions - as a boss or ally of standard ogres. He also becomes a bit too hard for 4th-5th level groups to deal with as a boss monster.I'm not comfortable with it at CR6 without implementing some of the changes Mearls mentions, just because that's boss monster territory for 2-4th level characters, and the ogre mage is way too tough for parties of that level. Likewise, I'm not comfortable with dropping all of its abilities and using the CR5 version because I don't subscribe to the 5-round-lifespan vanilla flavoring groupthink that D&D R&D fell into while they were simultaneously designing 4th edition and still flogging 3rd.I've never felt Mind Flayers were quite right for CR8 either - but a lot of monsters that used to require fodder to do well in previous editions feel that way in 3e regardless of CR anyway.</blockquote>