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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 1318313" data-attributes="member: 2629">Scion: I'm not interested in this subject enough to give it significant time, but I'll answer your issues in brief.1.) The half-ogre does a lot more damage in my books. I consider 6.5 more points per attack to be a lot. That is more than double specialization!2.) Reach is useful for more than AoOs. It can be used to negate AoOs by other creatures (as you don't need to move into their threatened area) and effectively increases movement by allowing you to reach targets that are farther away.3.) Yes, doubling nonmagical item costs is a minor penalty. The first level HOgre can't buy armor as nice as the human barbarian. By the end of the first few adventures he can afford any nonmagical armor that he wants. 4.) Using fractional saving throw bonuses to compare the barbarians, the HOgre gets +1/2 fort, -1&1/3 reflex and -1/3 will. Those are small differences. At high levels, reflex saves lose meaning as hit point totals increase and other resistances to common reflex saving throws (ie; resistance to fire, etc ... ) becomes more meaningful than the saving throws.5.) I went through the significant disadvantages. I missed mentioning one - the loss of 1 level of class abilities - but that is not too important either. (Did you notice that the HOgre does more damage when not raging that the human does while raging?) I failed to mentiuon a few insignificant disavantages (skills, etc ...) because they don't play a major role in a melee fighter's life.6.) Yes, comparing 6th level human barbarians to 5th level HOgres is one place where the human shines a little brighter than usual. That happens at 6th, 11th and 16th level. Beyond that, HOgres win out.From experience, I can tell you that a HOgre PC will outshine any standard raced PC as a melee fighter of equivalent ECL and with an equivalent generation system. I've seen it. It isn't even close.I encourage any DM to do a few mock battles to test out how it works before allowing a player to choose the race. Build two PCs - a human and a HOgre of the same ECL. Run them through mock battles with the rest of the party. Keep track of how effective each PC is in battle: damage, kills, significant actions in battle, etc ... Try a few mock battles after advancing the party up to a higher power level if you have the time. Then, look at your results and decide if it is even. In other words - do the leg work yourself before using it. I've said what I have to offer. I hope my insights can be useful to you.</blockquote>

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