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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Larcen" data-source="post: 1320023" data-attributes="member: 2406">?!  Whoa.  Where did this come from ? What hate?  I'm sorry if I came across as hateful, but that was definately not my intention.  I even threw a couple of smileys in there and everything.  Ask anyone who knows me, I am pretty happy-go-lucky guy.  I thought we were having a friendly conversation here, not getting ugly.As you say, I may have missed the gist of your point.  But I also feel I didn't make mine clear enough.  All I was doing was trying to defend half-orcs, since I am thinking of playing one and have seen others play them successfully.  I was guessing (correct me if am wrong) that the main complaint people have about half-orcs is the extra stat penalty they get and I was trying to explain in my last post why that, in itself, should not make or break them as viable PCs.  And the best example I could think of for that is to state that people have been playing party members for years that didn't have stats that all added up to the same number of bonuses.  Sometimes they were vastly different, more so than a given character having an extra -2.  To some people that kind of game balance is just not THAT important.  Anymore important then 4d6 will naturally make some PCs more powerful than others.  If balanced stats were honest and truly all that important, random generation methods would not exist.  Like they do now for a lot of players and like they did back in 1E for all players.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Let me give you another example that I hope doesn't confuse the issue even more.  Sorcerers by a lot of people's reckoning are weaker than wizards.  But I still would rather play a sorcerer.  Why?  Because, despite any perceived game mechanic flaw, I think they are WAY COOLER than wizards.  I would rather play a charismatic character that travels light (no spellbooks) than a stuffy bookworm tied to his musty tomes.  Well, the same can be said for half-orcs.  Some people play them because, despite all, they feel they are just plain cool.  Maybe they like playing big, smelly, obnoxious, one dimensional half-breeds.  Those people do not look at the race rules and say, "whoa, they get an extra stat penalty? forget it!"  They just don't care.  They are taking the race for other reasons.  Hopefully sometimes roleplaying reasons.  Take the half-orc in our party for example.  He is the most fleshed out character we have, IMO.  And he certainly doesn't fit the half-orc mold of a brainless warrior.  In fact, he is trying very hard to civiliize and sophisticate himself and fit into human society.  It's a very cool character with lots of angst and depth.  Would have been a shame if the player had discounted him on account of the extra -2 to his INT.   (INT was the stat that he really hated losing out on, due to the character concept.)Maybe you will get offended again.  Maybe it will be because I am stating the obvious here.   Maybe because I am still missing your point.  But, when you make statements like this I feel I must defend the hapless half-orcs:"Halforcs are a boring race, they have no real bonuses save one, and have a more than one penalty. It doesnt balance out. It, in general, isnt fun to play as compared to a race that has interesting things behind it."I am just not seeing how half-orcs are so boring and uninteresting as compared to the others races.  Because they are sub-optimal game mechanically??  Call me dense, but I just don't see it.Sorry if I am coming across wrong again.  Just in case, here are some extra smileys for you: <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" />  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" />  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" />  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" />  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> (Please don't take any of that as highhanded and sarcastic.  I am truly trying to avoid confrontation here.  Just having good conversation.  Ok?)</blockquote>

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