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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nyaricus" data-source="post: 2999209" data-attributes="member: 35678">Actually, subraces have been around for a LONG time. Take Nordic Mythology (which gives D&D many of it's... D&Disms) and you have Frost Giants, Cliff Giants, Storm Giants, Mountain Giants, Sea Giants, Fire Giants and so on. You have Light and Dark Elves. You have A bunch of stuff. The Greeks has Lesser and Greater Cyclopeses. The Celts had Trooping and Solitary Faries. Etc. So I think sub-races will stay. However, this is really more of an issue with racial identity than anything. There was an awesome 'Motivational Poster' from that other thread (or a link therein) that said "GNOMES: Another edition, another racial identity". That hits the nail pretty much on the head, don't you think? Not to mention that they got rid of the +2 Int, -2 Wis from AD&D, which was one of the reasons why my first character in 3.0 was, infact a gnome (no less than a gnomish bard, in fact - and you read that right: 3.0), they had such great flavour! Now they are washed out, with the bard as favoured class.Of course, in 3.5, with the advent of the Beguiler, I beleive I've found their new favoured class, hands down, while playing in Forgotten Realms. But are we, or should we, really have to wait for 3.75 or 4th edition to get a reason, coherant base race out of the gnome? Right now, it's not just a 'forgotten folk' - it's a back sheep.Absolutly. If I had it my way (and, luckily, I have a homebrew I can do so in) I've have gnomes have the fey type, and be a non-PC race. I think they'd be a great side-quest to retreive a stolen item and have to work you way through a bunch of traps - maybe harmless, maybe not. Running through a gnome warren with gnomes melded into the walls or floor via magics (or just hiding in secret tunnels and what not) would be great! But we are instead stuck with what has been wrought. It's not unfixable, but it's definitly at the point where somehting needs to be done, IMO.Personally, I've gone a step further IMC - I have simply banned certain classes for certain races, and given each class a list of 'allowed classes'. Free multiclass between them all (after all, mutliclasses forces you to spread you focuses thinner than a single class would) and they are all themed appropriatly. Of course, most of the leg work of this setting has yet to be done, but I have big plans on the classes, hopefully which will have rough drafts posted here at EN World sometime in the next few months.But giving multiple choices for favoured class would be great. That is one of the things that have always bothered me about D&D in general; becasue so what if these are the archetypical adventurers of the given races? You need more than one color to make a rainbow, right? So it, seems... shortsighted that every adventurer who is a gnome is a bard, since the penalties otherwise are atrocious. Don't you need strong people in other fields? Like magic, divine magic, fighting, skilled misc.?? Yes, you do. But D&D doesn't allow such, unless you are a human, which seems odd. Personally, this is one of the reasons why I've done what I have done, and I think it's for the better. It gives my players expectations for the type of game I run, adn with what themes, and it, in a lot of cases, makes sense.</blockquote>

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