Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Million Dollar TTRPG Crowdfunders
Most Anticipated Tabletop RPGs Of The Year
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Enchanted Trinkets Complete--a hardcover book containing over 500 magic items for your D&D games!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Oil+Alchemist's Fire
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 7992267" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>That's my point. It's a double-edged sword. You can't say "if" definitely means "each time" and I can't say "if" definitely means "the first time". It's bad wording.</p><p></p><p>Logically, it makes more sense if it goes up in a single round, because you don't then get the irrational situation where the oil immediately stops burning the moment fire damage isn't being applied, or burns super-intense if a lot of fire-damage is applied (but again goes to a dead stop if fire damage isn't applied).</p><p></p><p>Balance-wise, it makes more sense for it to be one-time too. Especially considering the very low cost of the oil. Otherwise this becomes a hysterically insane booster for Firebolt or the like. Good ol' Sorcerer Twin Firebolt, Quicken Firebolt, has +5 damage on every roll, which is very nearly double damage, and every round thereafter (for an entire minutes!) by your reading. You basically want to just get everyone to do as many hits with Fire damage as possible, because +5 damage, even at quite high levels, is totally mad. Imagine a party with multiple characters able to do fire damage. Hell, my current party in Odyssey has 3 PCs who have cantrips which can do Fire damage, and spells too, like Chromatic Orb. If this does +5 fire damage every single time the target is hit with fire for an entire minute</p><p></p><p>And there's no countermeasure possible. You can't "remove the oil". It's not an option. You can't make a save. This is is incredible.</p><p></p><p>Your proposed usage is powerful, but not broken. But the same logic that powers your oil+alchemists fire deal makes this completely broken, and I do mean broken, because it means anyone not Fire Resistant (which is still like, the vast majority of monster/NPCs), basically the party should just get someone to throw oil on them, then victimize the hell out of them. It's so good you might even want to take whatever Feat it is that gives you Improvised Weapon Proficiency so that you get +Proficiency to hit. Everyone in the party should look at getting a way to do fire damage if they can, to just really pile it on (so long as their main damage doesn't suffer too much).</p><p></p><p>So, in summary, yes, you interpretation is possible, but it's broken, balance-wise, and not very logical (because either the oil is on fire or it isn't, or it all burned up), and there's no common countermeasure or save (a DM might allow a spell which produced water, or even Prestidigitation to fix it, but almost no monsters or NPCs will have either). As a DM you can rule either way, but if you rule "+5 Fire damage for an entire minute with nothing you can do about it haha!" expect your PCs to go "OHO!!!!" and exploit the hell out of that.</p><p></p><p>If you just want Alchemist's Fire to suck less, maybe just go with JC's take of +DEX damage/round?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>10 damage is not actually bad for a usage of your Action on an ability your class is supposed to use or the like (even accounting for a miss), and its actually very good for a non-class ability. It compares extremely favourably with the Help action in combat, for example, which gives Advantage for one attack, to an ally. As poor [USER=7019027]@Asisreo[/USER] knows from the extremely lengthy discussion on True Strike, in most situations, Advantage on a single attack is worth like 3-5 damage. Therefore the default 5 damage is not out-of-line. 10 isn't excessive either, because you could miss with the vial (whereas Help always succeeds). It would just require a house rule.</p><p></p><p>(Btw [USER=7019027]@Asisreo[/USER] I enjoyed your reddit post re: exploration adventures, assuming that's also you! Some good pointers!)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 7992267, member: 18"] That's my point. It's a double-edged sword. You can't say "if" definitely means "each time" and I can't say "if" definitely means "the first time". It's bad wording. Logically, it makes more sense if it goes up in a single round, because you don't then get the irrational situation where the oil immediately stops burning the moment fire damage isn't being applied, or burns super-intense if a lot of fire-damage is applied (but again goes to a dead stop if fire damage isn't applied). Balance-wise, it makes more sense for it to be one-time too. Especially considering the very low cost of the oil. Otherwise this becomes a hysterically insane booster for Firebolt or the like. Good ol' Sorcerer Twin Firebolt, Quicken Firebolt, has +5 damage on every roll, which is very nearly double damage, and every round thereafter (for an entire minutes!) by your reading. You basically want to just get everyone to do as many hits with Fire damage as possible, because +5 damage, even at quite high levels, is totally mad. Imagine a party with multiple characters able to do fire damage. Hell, my current party in Odyssey has 3 PCs who have cantrips which can do Fire damage, and spells too, like Chromatic Orb. If this does +5 fire damage every single time the target is hit with fire for an entire minute And there's no countermeasure possible. You can't "remove the oil". It's not an option. You can't make a save. This is is incredible. Your proposed usage is powerful, but not broken. But the same logic that powers your oil+alchemists fire deal makes this completely broken, and I do mean broken, because it means anyone not Fire Resistant (which is still like, the vast majority of monster/NPCs), basically the party should just get someone to throw oil on them, then victimize the hell out of them. It's so good you might even want to take whatever Feat it is that gives you Improvised Weapon Proficiency so that you get +Proficiency to hit. Everyone in the party should look at getting a way to do fire damage if they can, to just really pile it on (so long as their main damage doesn't suffer too much). So, in summary, yes, you interpretation is possible, but it's broken, balance-wise, and not very logical (because either the oil is on fire or it isn't, or it all burned up), and there's no common countermeasure or save (a DM might allow a spell which produced water, or even Prestidigitation to fix it, but almost no monsters or NPCs will have either). As a DM you can rule either way, but if you rule "+5 Fire damage for an entire minute with nothing you can do about it haha!" expect your PCs to go "OHO!!!!" and exploit the hell out of that. If you just want Alchemist's Fire to suck less, maybe just go with JC's take of +DEX damage/round? 10 damage is not actually bad for a usage of your Action on an ability your class is supposed to use or the like (even accounting for a miss), and its actually very good for a non-class ability. It compares extremely favourably with the Help action in combat, for example, which gives Advantage for one attack, to an ally. As poor [USER=7019027]@Asisreo[/USER] knows from the extremely lengthy discussion on True Strike, in most situations, Advantage on a single attack is worth like 3-5 damage. Therefore the default 5 damage is not out-of-line. 10 isn't excessive either, because you could miss with the vial (whereas Help always succeeds). It would just require a house rule. (Btw [USER=7019027]@Asisreo[/USER] I enjoyed your reddit post re: exploration adventures, assuming that's also you! Some good pointers!) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Oil+Alchemist's Fire
Top