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<blockquote data-quote="fba827" data-source="post: 234736" data-attributes="member: 807">Well, I understand your comments, but the same argument could be made for Wizards and Ref saves - how often do they need to make a Ref save? Most of the typical damaging spells are the ref save ones (fireball, etc).&nbsp; And, on top of that, it isn't as though Wizards have the HP to spare <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />&nbsp; (heck, a stiff wind that blows them over and kill 'em <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />So I think the point that adndgamer was trying to make was simply that low will saves is just part of that particular class.&nbsp; Then, as an offer for ways to help counter it, the suggestion was to use a save-boosting feat.&nbsp; While I'm not disagreeing with you that Will saves can be an Achilles heel for fighters, just that the same can be said for other saves for other classes.Having said all that, however, it could just the style of play your DM uses.&nbsp; In the gaming groups I've been in, rarely is a Will save spell used as the primary tactic used specifically to take down fighters.. i mean, what are the chances that your opponents always have those spells ready/accessible.Just rambles ...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="fba827, post: 234736, member: 807"] Well, I understand your comments, but the same argument could be made for Wizards and Ref saves - how often do they need to make a Ref save? Most of the typical damaging spells are the ref save ones (fireball, etc). And, on top of that, it isn't as though Wizards have the HP to spare ;) (heck, a stiff wind that blows them over and kill 'em ;) So I think the point that adndgamer was trying to make was simply that low will saves is just part of that particular class. Then, as an offer for ways to help counter it, the suggestion was to use a save-boosting feat. While I'm not disagreeing with you that Will saves can be an Achilles heel for fighters, just that the same can be said for other saves for other classes. Having said all that, however, it could just the style of play your DM uses. In the gaming groups I've been in, rarely is a Will save spell used as the primary tactic used specifically to take down fighters.. i mean, what are the chances that your opponents always have those spells ready/accessible. Just rambles ... [/QUOTE]

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