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<blockquote data-quote="TiQuinn" data-source="post: 237098" data-attributes="member: 4871">Re: Ok. Make a Will Save.Well, if the worry is the fighter or the rogue is overly susceptible to mind-influencing spells and the like, then the party should adjust their tactics.&nbsp; Wizards and clerics can free a held character with various spells.&nbsp; Magic items such as cloaks of resistance, and boots of free action might come into play as well.&nbsp; Maybe the fighters and the rogues decide to spend that next ability point on Wisdom instead of Strength or Dex.&nbsp; Perhaps they take Iron Will.The bottom line is that there are several different ways to skin this cat.&nbsp; The kicker is, for the weaknesses that these classes have when it comes to Will saves, they more than make up for it with their Reflex and Fortitude saves.&nbsp; Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Slay Living, Burning Hands, Disintegrate, etc.&nbsp; Of course, you can always maximize evil spellcasters to make their Dominate Person spell nearly always automatically succeed against fighters, but if there is a give and take to this.&nbsp; That spellcaster is now open to sneak attacks from the rogue, magical attacks from the cleric or the wizard, or attacks from a second fighter in the group.If the fighter is singled out every time, perhaps unfairly by the DM, then you have an altogether different problem.&nbsp; DMs need to act fairly and vary their routines a bit.&nbsp; Not every spellcaster is going to have Spell Focus in Enchantment, for example nor will they always throw a Hold Person as their first spell in a battle.But assuming that the DM is acting fairly, where's the quibble?&nbsp; Characters aren't designed to be all powerful.&nbsp; Each one has a weakness that others may try to exploit.&nbsp; Tis the game.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="TiQuinn, post: 237098, member: 4871"] [b]Re: Ok. Make a Will Save.[/b] Well, if the worry is the fighter or the rogue is overly susceptible to mind-influencing spells and the like, then the party should adjust their tactics. Wizards and clerics can free a held character with various spells. Magic items such as cloaks of resistance, and boots of free action might come into play as well. Maybe the fighters and the rogues decide to spend that next ability point on Wisdom instead of Strength or Dex. Perhaps they take Iron Will. The bottom line is that there are several different ways to skin this cat. The kicker is, for the weaknesses that these classes have when it comes to Will saves, they more than make up for it with their Reflex and Fortitude saves. Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Slay Living, Burning Hands, Disintegrate, etc. Of course, you can always maximize evil spellcasters to make their Dominate Person spell nearly always automatically succeed against fighters, but if there is a give and take to this. That spellcaster is now open to sneak attacks from the rogue, magical attacks from the cleric or the wizard, or attacks from a second fighter in the group. If the fighter is singled out every time, perhaps unfairly by the DM, then you have an altogether different problem. DMs need to act fairly and vary their routines a bit. Not every spellcaster is going to have Spell Focus in Enchantment, for example nor will they always throw a Hold Person as their first spell in a battle. But assuming that the DM is acting fairly, where's the quibble? Characters aren't designed to be all powerful. Each one has a weakness that others may try to exploit. Tis the game. [/QUOTE]

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