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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Saeviomagy" data-source="post: 2017474" data-attributes="member: 5890">The key with picking ANYTHING that has an LA is that the advantages have to equal or outweigh what you'd get for those levels.For instance - an ogre is an ECL 6 creature.The primary focus of a fighter are his hitpoints and his base attack.A fighter 6 has attacks at 6/1. An ogre has one attack at +8, with a +6 (strength and weapon size) to damage. These are roughly equivalent.A fighter 6 has 6d10 hitpoints (6-60). The ogre has 4d8+8 hitpoints (12-40). So a slight edge to the fighter. The ogres reach and net +3 ac probably makes up for that.In short - it's worth taking ogre to be a fighter.Since there are basically no races which give caster levels, it's basically never worth it to have an ECL for a caster. Also, typically, monsters with kewl powerz are heavily overrated in their ECL. Take the doppleganger for instance.An 8th level rogue will have better and more skills, more abilities, far more hitpoints and is down by only two abilities - detect thoughts and change shape. Since there are spells available which can duplicate both of those abilities, and do it well, the doppleganger hasn't really gained much. Hell - if you take a single level of rogue, able learner and then fill the rest with sorceror, you're probably far superior to the doppleganger. So - doppleganger is a waste of time.As for half-celestial? It's lame at level 1 - sure you've got funky abilities, but with a single hit-dice it takes but one lucky shot to put you out of the game.Once you've got some hitpoints backing you up, I'm sure it's quite potent. At level 10 (total ECL 14), that +4 con is making up for your lost hit dice. At that point, having an SR of 20, 3 energy resistances, DR 5/magic and your innate spells are probably making up for your shortfalls in other areas. In actual fact, it's probably worth it as low as level 7 (ECL 11).Finally - the above only really applies for warrior types - once caster level comes into the equation, drop the templates.</blockquote>

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