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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 4263948" data-attributes="member: 42582">Both these quotes suggest that the gamers in question are playing the wrong RPG. RPGs exist which include mechanical representation of both "adventuring" skills and "background" skills, and in which it is possible to make choices about trading off one against the other while at the same time it is possible to avoid gimping one's character. Examples (which are otherwise quite different) include Rolemaster, Runequest and HeroQuest.The problem with 3E is not that it permits (or even forces) hard choices, but that it is poorly designed, insofar as it makes it almost impossible to build a mechanically viable character who also has background skills.I don't agree with this, for the following reason:This identifies a further problem of 3E - it has character build mechanics that are unsupported by action resolution or reward mechanics. In this respect it also differs from such otherwise diverse games as RQ, RM or HQ.Leaving aside that the 3E Rogue is an assassin (via Sneak Attack) rather than a reneissance man (the 3E Bard more closely fits this archetype), the notion that 3E is well-suited for playing the sort of game you describe is pretty implausible. It has no real mechanics to support social interaction, it has no mechanics at all to support wooing girls or dealing with landed titles and it has no Administration skill (perhaps Profession could be adapted, but as noted above Profession in 3E is a skill without a mechanic).Also, your suggestion about the sort of player to whom 4e would appeal appears a little condescending. Just as 4e has more sophisticated combat mechanics than 3E, so did Runequest and Rolemaster than AD&D. It doesn't follow that either of those games produced a less serious approach to play.Both QFT.I think this almost goes without saying. Where well-designed mechanics lead, play will follow.</blockquote>

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