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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Primitive Screwhead" data-source="post: 6421900" data-attributes="member: 20805">Yes, I probably do overcomplicate things.  But this isn't an 'attack' action.   You appear to be saying that when Summoning you need to make a MAG vs the Mental Defense attack against the critter{s} you are summoning and failure means that they only defend you? but can pay double cost to not bother about rolling and get an obedient summons.Going back to complicating things.. as the current rules read you don't even roll when casting a summons. You just summon, and if you paid enough the summons is obedient.. otherwize it hangs out and defends you. SO if you have Quick-cast.. you will always quick-cast your summons, no roll means no cost.Stating that summons require a bargaining roll to convince the summons to be obedient isn't that much of a complication. Making that roll be a WIL vs 16+MP cost means that the druid and diabolist are naturally better at summoning {both classes grant WIL boosts}, something that should probably be in their wheelhouse. Using Mag as the core roll means that the Fire Mage is better at summoning that the core mage  {assuming same skills, etc..} and the summoning is purely about how strong of a caster you are, not the tradition you seek.I was also thinking to use the Will check based on how powerful the results of the spell is and not on how intelligent the summoned critter is. Example: the NEW T-Rex has a mental Def of 6 and is level 9..a nastily strong combat brute. The Wolf has a mental Def of 10 and is level 5, a much weaker combat creature. Based on using Mag vs Mental Def as the roll, it would be easier to summon a t-rex.That is why I was looking at the Summon and negotiate sort of scenario, not only does it fit into literature better it puts a risk on casting a summons.. maybe the critter will help, maybe it won't. I prefer that since bringing another creature into the encounter can significantly shift the battle.. even if all that critter does is soak damage by taking attacks the PC's would usually take.  Why a difficulty of 16+MP cost? it fits pretty neatly into the expected range, with casters wanting to find an edge, risk a straight roll, or pay the extra mana. A 6d6 roll average hits the range of difficulty numbers, so most casters would be looking for that extra edge where they can.</blockquote>

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