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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Andor" data-source="post: 5839232" data-attributes="member: 1879">How about... Pages 56-93? And 125-129?I'm not completely ignorant of 4e. I own the base 3 books, I have read them. I have not kept up with 4e, because I have never once, since it came out, met a single person willing to run it. Aound here I know of several 3e games, and many more playing FFGs Warhammer 40k line of RPGs. No one that I know plays 4e.I would be happy to actually give it a whirl, if offered the opportunity. But please don't, for the love of literacy, pretend that 'balance' is not THE driving focus of 4e, at least as it was first printed."A standard encounter should challenge a typical group of characters but not overwhelm them. The characters should prevail if they haven't depleted their daily resources or had a streak of bad luck. An encounter that's the same level as the party, or one level higher, falls in this standard range of difficulty." 4e DMG pg 56.They are explicitly telling you what playstyle they expect the GM to provide and have well thought out tools to allow him to craft provide it. Even traps and terrain are treated in this way. "When the terrain requires a skill check or ability check, use the Difficulty Class by Level table (page 42) to set a DC that's appropriate to the characters' level." Now, before someone puts words into my mouth, they are not saying that you CANNOT put in an unblanced encounter. And it would be obviously pointless if they did as WotC ninjas will not break down your door and shred your GMing license for puting in a level+5 encounter with no loot.But it is utterly clear that 4e has, as an explicit and driving goal, a playstyle where PCs are always challenged, but in a sufficiently modest way that they can solve any given problem out of pocket. They are not expected to need to run, they are not expected to get a TPK because they hit a bad patch on the wandering monster table, they are not expected to find a wall they cannot climb. Nor do they find one that would be too easy. A good GM will vary things up a bit, and 4e doesn't say they can't. But I think the expectation that PCs should be able to cope with any challange within the existing resources on their character sheets is a hinderance to creative or unusual use of resources or abilities to deal with problems in unexpected ways. Even the (excellent) section on terrain makes it clear that tactical use of terrain features is something that should be offered to the PCs rather than merely permitted.The sole (and so very often cited) exception to this is page 42. And page 42 is fantastic, but it's kinda wierd even in it's coolness. For example if a 1st level rogue kicks an ogre into a brazier it might burn him for 2d6+4 damage, where as if a 15th level rogue does it it would inflict 3d6+6. Same fire, same ogre, different damage. Why? Because a higher level character did it, and it would seem unfair if she did too much less than a regular attack might make, so she does more damage than a 1st level character would do while performing that exact same maneuver.You know... perhaps that's the word that's key. Balance is something that exists only between party members. Forget balance for a second. There is an expectation, which is stronger in 4e than is ealier editions, that life is supposed to be fair for the PCs. And to me a hero is someone who triumphs no matter how unfair life is.This sense that the world is supposed to be fair for the PCs runs through 4e from the by level DCs to the loot by encounter tables.Yes, 3e has treasure by level guidelines and ECL tables. I'm not pretending for a second that the "PC fairness expectation" is new to 4e. But it is a trend that has grown with each edition of D&D. In 1e no one would gasp with shock if they heard about a total party wipe due to an unlucky roll on the wandering monster table. By 3e, that would have seemed like a weird story. What I'm asking in this thread is "Should the expectation of PC fairness peak in 4e or are we grognards idiots for thinking unfairness makes for a better game?"</blockquote>

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