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<blockquote data-quote="nevin" data-source="post: 9118809" data-attributes="member: 7024481">well most fighters by 4th or 5th level had quite a few magic items so they did have &quot;buttons&quot; to push.&nbsp; also no skills so all those things we've silo'ed for rogues or other skill monkeys were just as possible for the fighter if the skill check could be made.&nbsp; &nbsp; the fighter having nothing to do out of combat is and always has been an player whining i can't do what they just did problem and 5e magic item rules just make it worse by reducing options for giving the non casters more buttons.&nbsp; I'd also argue the bard actually made it worse.&nbsp; Now we are supposed to have a party face that in actuality causes many to sit back and let the charismatic one do all the non combat face time, while the rogue does all the non combat sneaky time and the mage and cleric do the other non combat stuff.&nbsp;&nbsp; Most players that land at old school tables are usually shocked that players will engage all the time not just in their silo.&nbsp;&nbsp; that's modern D&amp;D's biggest issue in my opinion.&nbsp; &nbsp; All these silo's and archetypes to give everyone their own space also makes it seem like they shouldn't step out of those spaces.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="nevin, post: 9118809, member: 7024481"] well most fighters by 4th or 5th level had quite a few magic items so they did have "buttons" to push. also no skills so all those things we've silo'ed for rogues or other skill monkeys were just as possible for the fighter if the skill check could be made. the fighter having nothing to do out of combat is and always has been an player whining i can't do what they just did problem and 5e magic item rules just make it worse by reducing options for giving the non casters more buttons. I'd also argue the bard actually made it worse. Now we are supposed to have a party face that in actuality causes many to sit back and let the charismatic one do all the non combat face time, while the rogue does all the non combat sneaky time and the mage and cleric do the other non combat stuff. Most players that land at old school tables are usually shocked that players will engage all the time not just in their silo. that's modern D&D's biggest issue in my opinion. All these silo's and archetypes to give everyone their own space also makes it seem like they shouldn't step out of those spaces. [/QUOTE]

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