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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 8366152" data-attributes="member: 45197">Hiya!Well, as on of those "old timers" who has ran D1-2 multiple times over the decades since about 1984, I'll toss in my 2 coppers. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />..with the PC's slowly being picked off, dying of starvation, alone and in the dark, obviously!<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Wrong attitude and wrong game system. Back in 1e, high-level PC's (and yes, 9th level was considered high level) were significantly more capable than todays PC's...when comparing against the "numbers and mechanics of the game". Just looking at everyone's favourite pre-gen'ed character..."Beek Gwenders of Croodle"A 9th level Ranger. His AC -3 (5e Equiv: 23). Hit Points of Beek was ridiculous for 1e; Beek was sporting a whopping 93(!) HP's. Back in 1e, an Ogre does 1d10 damage; at average, it's gonna take the ogre 16 rounds (that's MINUTES, btw...) to kill Beek if he hits every time. Which he won't; because the ogre needs to roll an 18+ to hit him.Beek, on the other hand, needs a 3+ to hit the ogre (Beeks Str bonus and his Sword +1), 3/2 rounds (meaning 1 attack the first round, then 2 the second round, then 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, etc). His Longsword does 1d12 against Ogres. With +4 for Str, +1 for Magic...oh, and +9 because Beek is a Ranger fighting a "giant class" creature; so +14 damage. That's 1d12+14 damage, for an average of 21 damage per hit. An ogre has 4d8+1hp; average being 19hp. Beek can cut through 3 Ogers every TWO ROUNDS! That's 24 Ogres dead by the time the ogres have taken out Beek...assuming every single ogre's To Hit roll is NEVER below 18.See my point? The PC's in 1e are SIGNIFICANTLY better at taking out "monsters and such"; a dozen ogres for a group of even 4 10th level PC's is a 'warm up fight'. It won't take many rounds of combat...and with a group of 1e Players that have played enough to even get PC's to 10th level...I'd guess that fight would take about 5 minutes. Less if the MU pulls out a Scroll with Fireball on it (POOF! 12 crispy ogres in ONE round!, almost guaranteed).So your contention that it would take "many boring rounds" is simply misplaced. This also assumes that the PC's all "rush in and start attacking" everything in sight. To get to 10th level, Players have learned that is dumb. They don't do that. They use all manner of spells, magic items and special abilities to do recon and to avoid or "divide and conquer", or they use guerilla tactics. (assuming you're talking about the places like the trog caves or the troll caves, etc?)Remember! Back in 1e, you got more XP from treasure than killing! Depending on the DM's interpretation of "defeating monsters", they probably got XP from avoiding these huge fights. In 1e, it was about surviving and getting the gold...not about "being heroic and saving the world", generally speaking.Because that's not how 1e rolls. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I think you simply have little (any?) experience playing in an "Old Skool Style" 1e campaign/game. To those that still play it (like me), what you are saying is like me saying "Why bother even adventuring in 5e? Adventures are written in such a linear manner, and with such specific, expected encounters and outcomes, ...why not just hand me a 30 page short story describing how we all succeeded in saving the world?". <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />The "encounters" in 1e are meant to challenge THE PLAYERS, as well as their PC's. They are not meant to be "direct obstacles to be engaged with at every turn". An encounter with a drow patrol check point; this is a challenge for the PLAYERS to figure out how to overcome...not their PC's. Some players will use subterfuge...some stealth...some magic....some combat. The point of the "encounter" is that it is there and portrays the fantasy setting/world. It's there to make the world seem believable in the setting/story... NOT to be an "encounter for the PC's to fight".As I said...it's an "encounter" in that it is a believable location, contingent, and tactics for the Drow. It sets the 'first encounter with' Drow in the minds of the PLAYERS (and their PC's). It is the PLAYERS that learn and gain experience here...not necessarily their PC's; that's secondary, imnsho. How the Players react to this encounter is the "expected outcome". It sets the tone, so to say, for the Players future tactics and expectations of the dungeon/module. A TPK is a completely reasonable outcome! I know, heresy, right? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> The Heroic PC's all dying in the FIRST encounter?!? INSANITY!!! Try that with todays players and yeah, you'd have a table of very confused and possibly angry people sitting there wondering w-t-frig just happened. But that's because I think 'modern' play has moved so far away from the game being meant to challenge the Players, to the game being meant to challenge the Player Characters. That's a whole other thread though! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> As I mentioned back up Beek Gwenders...the area is meant to portray the believability of the campaign world...not necessarily as an "encounter to be directly interacted with". Lots of different approaches.For my experiences running it... surprisingly, each group always did well! Two groups even manage to 'complete' it, getting to Q1 (with one of those groups successfully besting Lolth...the other group, er...not so much... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> ).^_^Paul L. Ming</blockquote>

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