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General Tabletop Discussion
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Older Editions and "Balance" when compared to 3.5
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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 5320711" data-attributes="member: 18280"><p>1st level elf thief. Just saying. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool :cool:" data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /></p><p></p><p>Or anything that sneaks up on him. Or beats his initiative with a ranged weapon, or in melee range.</p><p></p><p>Frankly, if you think a 1st level wizard with <em>sleep</em> can autowin any single 1st-level encounter, your 1st-level wizards would probably drop like flies in any 1e game I have ever played. There is no auto-win button! Playing like there is will not ensure character survival. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /></p><p></p><p>1e didn't assume that 1st level characters should be out adventuring alone, however, or facing each other one-on-one in an arena somewhere. The dynamic is not based on a single encounter, but what can be done over the course of an adventure or a play session -- keeping in mind resource tracking (including the time to memorize spells in 1e, which isn't just a little bit, and tracking ammunition for missile weapons).</p><p></p><p>I've played every class in 1e except the bard, and they all contributed. I found them all fun to play. I didn't have any balance issues with any of them -- even with UA, although I stuck to the 4d6, arrange as desired method, as both player and DM, which might have helped to curb that book's excesses. Certainly, my DMs had no problems challenging me -- lethally, even! -- if I went too deep, picked the wrong battle, or my hubris got the better of me.</p><p></p><p>Part of the reason that 1e balances well, when played as intended, is that the players are choosing the balance. They decide what risks they can take, and they decide which player characters adventure together. They can choose to play it safe, taking easy victories for small rewards, or they can risk more in hopes of getting more. Obnoxious players or overpowered characters simply are not invited on an expedition -- the players, not the DM, make this determination.....Although the DM, too, has a say! </p><p></p><p>The more risks the characters take -- and survive -- the more they grow, so more active characters do better overall. You can bumble about with 15-minute adventuring days, if you like, but your friends will soon pass you by.</p><p></p><p>The farther you go from the core assumptions, though, the harder it is to balance the game. Likewise for all games, I suspect. 3e is certainly easier to balance when you plan the encounters based on APL, when the party hits the standard wealth, and is of standard size. </p><p></p><p>It is also easier to balance a game with a shallower power curve than a steep one. The steeper the curve, the more impact small changes will have. </p><p></p><p>All IMHO and IME, of course.</p><p></p><p></p><p>RC</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 5320711, member: 18280"] 1st level elf thief. Just saying. ;) :cool: Or anything that sneaks up on him. Or beats his initiative with a ranged weapon, or in melee range. Frankly, if you think a 1st level wizard with [I]sleep[/I] can autowin any single 1st-level encounter, your 1st-level wizards would probably drop like flies in any 1e game I have ever played. There is no auto-win button! Playing like there is will not ensure character survival. :lol: 1e didn't assume that 1st level characters should be out adventuring alone, however, or facing each other one-on-one in an arena somewhere. The dynamic is not based on a single encounter, but what can be done over the course of an adventure or a play session -- keeping in mind resource tracking (including the time to memorize spells in 1e, which isn't just a little bit, and tracking ammunition for missile weapons). I've played every class in 1e except the bard, and they all contributed. I found them all fun to play. I didn't have any balance issues with any of them -- even with UA, although I stuck to the 4d6, arrange as desired method, as both player and DM, which might have helped to curb that book's excesses. Certainly, my DMs had no problems challenging me -- lethally, even! -- if I went too deep, picked the wrong battle, or my hubris got the better of me. Part of the reason that 1e balances well, when played as intended, is that the players are choosing the balance. They decide what risks they can take, and they decide which player characters adventure together. They can choose to play it safe, taking easy victories for small rewards, or they can risk more in hopes of getting more. Obnoxious players or overpowered characters simply are not invited on an expedition -- the players, not the DM, make this determination.....Although the DM, too, has a say! The more risks the characters take -- and survive -- the more they grow, so more active characters do better overall. You can bumble about with 15-minute adventuring days, if you like, but your friends will soon pass you by. The farther you go from the core assumptions, though, the harder it is to balance the game. Likewise for all games, I suspect. 3e is certainly easier to balance when you plan the encounters based on APL, when the party hits the standard wealth, and is of standard size. It is also easier to balance a game with a shallower power curve than a steep one. The steeper the curve, the more impact small changes will have. All IMHO and IME, of course. RC [/QUOTE]
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