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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 5324956" data-attributes="member: 18280">Yep.  It was apparently "overly pedantic" to point out that sleep didn't autowin every encounter, or every encounter a 1st level m-u was likely to encounter, when those were proposed.  And, still, as you say, the contested point was "factually incorrect".And it is not simply that "an encounter with creatures subject to sleep could have more creatures in the encounter than a sleep spell will overcome" -- all it requries is that they are not bunched in a group.  For example, I generously listed the giant frogs as an autowin, because it is conceivable that a DM might have them all bunched up in a group.....although that seems unlikely to me.  Likewise, the rats are not necessarily bunched up, nor any of the humanoid encounters.I also ignored the bit in the DMG about sleep spells, because it isn't necessarily clear how the DM will adjudicate that, which also affects the frog encounter (turning it from an autowin to a likely win).So, again, I was giving the module the most generous reading possible for Hussar to be correct.  And he was still "factually incorrect".  (Is there some other kind of incorrect, btw?  Does this mean anything other than "wrong"?)It is clearly and obviously true that, in 1e at least, our poor magic-user better not travel alone.  Even with a Ring of Automatic Sleep At the Start of Each Encounter, he fails to trump the other classes.The sleep spell is useful to the party, but the magic-user needs the party if he wishes to survive.  And sleep is not an autowin for what he is likely to encounter, even if he can somehow take those encounters one at a time, regain the sleep spell between each encounter, always win initiative, and never get surprised.Anyone who thinks differently will have a short-lived magic-user in 1e.So, what you're saying is that situations in which sleep is not autowin are in the majority?<img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" />It was a silly idea long before we got to the Moathouse.RC</blockquote>

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