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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zinovia" data-source="post: 4339746" data-attributes="member: 57373">I have no objection to using a weaker version of a particular monster against the players.  As you say, it's a great way of tying plot elements together.  Why does the leader of the orc tribe have a devil standing behind him whispering into his ear when your party bursts into the throne room?  Perhaps the devils have been using the orcs to advance their own sinister plan, and thus the hook for the next adventure is planted.  If the devil type is a minion by the book, but is much higher level than the party, then it should not be treated like a minion as such.  It's defenses make it a challenge for the group because they will have a hard time hitting it.  The issue is that fighting it becomes very swingy.  A natural 20 early on and the thing goes down quickly.  If the dice gods have cursed the players with a string of low rolls, it will hang on for a long time and the characters will begin to fear for their lives.  I'd rather treat it as a real monster a bit closer to the character's level.  Describe it as being the same type as the usual higher level minion version, but use stats that reflect a creature closer in level to the group, with normal attacks and hit points.  The characters will have a better chance of landing a hit on it, and they will have to hit it more than once for it to die.  It's not the ability of the characters to defeat a higher level minion that concerns me, since they will eventually get lucky and beat it (if they don't get killed first).  It's the idea of a creature that is presenting a difficult challenge to the PC's popping like a soap bubble when they finally land a hit.  Minions having only 1hp works great for lower or equivalent level swarms of monsters that the PC's should be able to plow through.   That assumption breaks if the minion is scarier (higher level) than the PC's.  Personally I won't be using higher level minions against a lower level group.  Sure, I could use the same type of creature, but it will be revised with some real stats before fighting them.  Fortunately that should be pretty easy for me to adjust.</blockquote>

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