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OMG: The Core Cleric
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<blockquote data-quote="ShadowX" data-source="post: 3955546" data-attributes="member: 3720"><p>I actually don't see too many Cleric single target buffs that would be useful for any decently equipped fighter. I guess if the fighter planned his equipment around an assumption the cleric would buff him, then maybe you would have an argument. Otherwise all the best cleric buffs are either personal or group buffs. Furthermore, how can you advance the argument that clerics don't have time to buff themselves and buffing the fighter is a better move? If the cleric doesn't have time to buff then he can't buff the fighter either.</p><p></p><p>It only takes the use of Quicken Spell and the first round to get a cleric up to speed with short duration buffs. If DMM(Persistent) is available then it's even easier. By the way, I don't find DMM(Persistent) overpowered since it requires three feats and the often overlooked ability to turn undead 6 times. The latter requirement hinders a character the most unless you allow nightsticks to stack because you are looking at 3+4(starting ability)+4(nightstick)+3(Cloak of Charisma)+5(ability additions and tome of charisma) = 19 at level 20 if the character really strains for turn attempts. Are three persistent spells (more likely 2) really overpowered in this context?</p><p></p><p>I can't stress enough how the true power of clerics spring not from the buffs, but that after buffs they still have the most powerful class feature in the game: spellcasting. People that clamor for a fighter/mage character in the core books need look no further than the cleric, except the cleric can cast in armor and has automatic access to every spell.</p><p></p><p>The druid overshadows even the cleric because it doesn't even need time to buff. Just wildshape hours ahead of time into a creature that can outfight the fighter and still have a spell list that compares favorably to the wizards.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ShadowX, post: 3955546, member: 3720"] I actually don't see too many Cleric single target buffs that would be useful for any decently equipped fighter. I guess if the fighter planned his equipment around an assumption the cleric would buff him, then maybe you would have an argument. Otherwise all the best cleric buffs are either personal or group buffs. Furthermore, how can you advance the argument that clerics don't have time to buff themselves and buffing the fighter is a better move? If the cleric doesn't have time to buff then he can't buff the fighter either. It only takes the use of Quicken Spell and the first round to get a cleric up to speed with short duration buffs. If DMM(Persistent) is available then it's even easier. By the way, I don't find DMM(Persistent) overpowered since it requires three feats and the often overlooked ability to turn undead 6 times. The latter requirement hinders a character the most unless you allow nightsticks to stack because you are looking at 3+4(starting ability)+4(nightstick)+3(Cloak of Charisma)+5(ability additions and tome of charisma) = 19 at level 20 if the character really strains for turn attempts. Are three persistent spells (more likely 2) really overpowered in this context? I can't stress enough how the true power of clerics spring not from the buffs, but that after buffs they still have the most powerful class feature in the game: spellcasting. People that clamor for a fighter/mage character in the core books need look no further than the cleric, except the cleric can cast in armor and has automatic access to every spell. The druid overshadows even the cleric because it doesn't even need time to buff. Just wildshape hours ahead of time into a creature that can outfight the fighter and still have a spell list that compares favorably to the wizards. [/QUOTE]
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OMG: The Core Cleric
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