Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 5900561" data-attributes="member: 6681948">So how likely should it be that the Local Yokel can creep past them unnoticed?&nbsp; If we want that Warlord with a +2 bonus to slip past on a 13+, that means the local farmer with no bonus or penalty slips past on a 15+, and Clumsy Claude, with his -2 penalty to all things DEX based, will slip past these highly alert hobgoblin soldiers listening intently for footfalls 20% of the time.&nbsp; Suddenly, those Hobgoblins don't seem remotely alert.But if we bump the DC to, say, 19 (so Claude, who can roll an 18 at best, does not have a 5% chance of passing unnoticed), then the local yokel gets past 10% of the time (still seems pretty high), and the warlord needs a 15+ - will he take a chance on a 30% possibility of success, or will he stay behind - just like before&nbsp; - and let the &quot;expert&quot; who now has a 50/50 shot travel alone?&nbsp; And just how &quot;expert&quot; are you feeling with even odds of failure?I would argue that all adventurers have growing expertise in combat.&nbsp; Their BAB rises over time.&nbsp; Compared to Local Yokel, that +5 enjoyed by a 10th level Wizard seems pretty impressive, and the wizard isn't doing a lot of combat drills.And that's fine.&nbsp; It comes down to different goals for the game - how &quot;expert&quot; do we want our experts to be?&nbsp; This skill model suggests a 20th level Rogue won't be all that much better at stealth than a local farmer.&nbsp; A lot of his bonuses will likely come from magic items, rather than innate skill.&nbsp; And anyone with a high DEX will be nearly as effective, since &quot;training&quot; is a +2 flat bonus - there is no actual training to become more stealthy over time.Why not also set BAB at first level, and be done with that as well.&nbsp; Then we don't need huge spreads in AC either, and the Wizards have a chance to hit with their daggers, albeit 30% or so lower than the Warrior's.&nbsp; That should also be enough of a spread, shouldn't it?&nbsp; Saves can be done the same way - there's no need for them to become more difficult, and have saves improve over time, either, is there?That model can certainly work.&nbsp; The question is simply how wide a variance we want between &quot;average Joe&quot;, &quot;average adventurer&quot;, &quot;trained adventurer&quot; and adventurers (trained or not) of a variety of levels.&nbsp; Different preferences will certainly exist.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="N'raac, post: 5900561, member: 6681948"] So how likely should it be that the Local Yokel can creep past them unnoticed? If we want that Warlord with a +2 bonus to slip past on a 13+, that means the local farmer with no bonus or penalty slips past on a 15+, and Clumsy Claude, with his -2 penalty to all things DEX based, will slip past these highly alert hobgoblin soldiers listening intently for footfalls 20% of the time. Suddenly, those Hobgoblins don't seem remotely alert. But if we bump the DC to, say, 19 (so Claude, who can roll an 18 at best, does not have a 5% chance of passing unnoticed), then the local yokel gets past 10% of the time (still seems pretty high), and the warlord needs a 15+ - will he take a chance on a 30% possibility of success, or will he stay behind - just like before - and let the "expert" who now has a 50/50 shot travel alone? And just how "expert" are you feeling with even odds of failure? I would argue that all adventurers have growing expertise in combat. Their BAB rises over time. Compared to Local Yokel, that +5 enjoyed by a 10th level Wizard seems pretty impressive, and the wizard isn't doing a lot of combat drills. And that's fine. It comes down to different goals for the game - how "expert" do we want our experts to be? This skill model suggests a 20th level Rogue won't be all that much better at stealth than a local farmer. A lot of his bonuses will likely come from magic items, rather than innate skill. And anyone with a high DEX will be nearly as effective, since "training" is a +2 flat bonus - there is no actual training to become more stealthy over time. Why not also set BAB at first level, and be done with that as well. Then we don't need huge spreads in AC either, and the Wizards have a chance to hit with their daggers, albeit 30% or so lower than the Warrior's. That should also be enough of a spread, shouldn't it? Saves can be done the same way - there's no need for them to become more difficult, and have saves improve over time, either, is there? That model can certainly work. The question is simply how wide a variance we want between "average Joe", "average adventurer", "trained adventurer" and adventurers (trained or not) of a variety of levels. Different preferences will certainly exist. [/QUOTE]

Verification