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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cruentus" data-source="post: 8984714" data-attributes="member: 7034645">The thing I found most interesting about saving throws in 2e, which we never knew at the time, is that those Saving Throws were based on a Priority:2e PHB, Pg 134. For this reason, the saving throw categories in Table 60 are listed in order of importance, beginning with paralyzation, poison, and death magic, and ending with spells.For example: Save vs. Breath Weapon: A character uses this save when facing monsters with breath weapons, particularly the powerful blast of a dragon. This save can also be used in situations where a combination of physical stamina and Dexterity are critical factors in survival.Save vs. Spell: This is used whenever a character attempts to resist the effects of a magical attack, either by a spellcaster or from a magical item, provided no other type of saving throw is specified. This save can also be used to resist an attack that defies any other classification.So, a Fireball cast by a wizard or whomever, would actually be saved against Breath Weapon, since it is “a situation where a combination of stamina and dexterity are critical factors in survival”, and is a higher priority than Spells.  And you likely would get your Dex bonus added to your save roll. Likewise, if you are hit by a Wand of Polymorph, you save versus Rod, Staves, and Wands, as it is higher Priority, than Polymorph on Table 60.  Further, Wisdom and Dex could provide their ability bonuses to your saves, depending on type of save.  With re: to thieves, I played a fair few and others did at our table, and we never had any complaints about their performance.  Everyone really had a role in the game, at least how we played, and the thief did the sneaking, finding traps, picking pockets, and backstabbing when possible.  And sure, the Wizard could do some of that, and if he had enough spells, sure.  But as resources were tighter, we preferred the Wizard to focus on more blasty or controlling stuff, or maybe Invisibility, but his “artillery” we saved for more dangerous foes.  And I don’t think you can overstate the need for and additive factor that magic items were to characters.  After awhile you amassed quite a few magic items, rings, weapons, wands, etc. that really made up for bad ability scores, and also helped to define your character as it developed in play, and increased your power levels, compared to the cleric and wizard who really had a lot of their power baked into spell advancement.  Man, I miss 2e.  We’ve been playing OSE Advanced, and it scratches that simpler, grittier itch for sure, but 2e was really sort of out there and open as far as what you could do with kits, new spells, etc.  If you could think of it, it was probably out there somewhere, either in expansion books or Dragon mag.</blockquote>

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