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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
On Armor and Shields (aka what the heck are Shields, exactly?)
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<blockquote data-quote="Artoomis" data-source="post: 64777" data-attributes="member: 111"><p>Caliban:</p><p></p><p>Your position on rules interpretations is well-taken. I think I am not stating what I meant very well. I mean that BEFORE you take other factors into account, you should FIRST understand the published material. I did not mean that the published material is all that matters.</p><p></p><p>I might even agree with you AFTER considering designers intent, etc., but I'm trying to get to a conclusion based on the RULES ONLY. Only if that remains elusive do I seek out designers intent, etc.</p><p></p><p>I take it that, even after seeing the most complete list to date of armor and shield properties, you still feel that "wearing armor" includes shields? Considering core rules only.</p><p></p><p>I'm not sure that anyone ever noticed the language in the monk class before (or made special note of it) - they are restricted only when "wearing armor." I again submit to you that "wearing armor" and using shields" are two different things. I think the rules, taken together, support my position.</p><p></p><p>If we are to treat all the words in the PHB as being significant, then I assume it is significant that they chose to use "wearing armor" rather than, say, "using any armor." That second phrase could very well include shields, I admit, though it should specifically include them to be consistent with other parts of teh PHB. This first phrase seems to me to be refering to worn armor as opposed to shields. It seems that the PHB treats shields more like weapons when talking about worn items - armor and clothes are worn, weapons and shields are used (wielded, readied, or whatever term you like - but not really worn).</p><p></p><p>And I note you keep hanging your hat on what is similar between armor and shields - I never denied they have simliar properties, but there is so much different about them it is hard to believe that "wearing armor" is the same as "wearing armor or using shields."</p><p></p><p>BTW, I'll go back and edit my first post to include the statement you mentioned. It was already there as number 6, but only the second half of the quote.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Artoomis, post: 64777, member: 111"] Caliban: Your position on rules interpretations is well-taken. I think I am not stating what I meant very well. I mean that BEFORE you take other factors into account, you should FIRST understand the published material. I did not mean that the published material is all that matters. I might even agree with you AFTER considering designers intent, etc., but I'm trying to get to a conclusion based on the RULES ONLY. Only if that remains elusive do I seek out designers intent, etc. I take it that, even after seeing the most complete list to date of armor and shield properties, you still feel that "wearing armor" includes shields? Considering core rules only. I'm not sure that anyone ever noticed the language in the monk class before (or made special note of it) - they are restricted only when "wearing armor." I again submit to you that "wearing armor" and using shields" are two different things. I think the rules, taken together, support my position. If we are to treat all the words in the PHB as being significant, then I assume it is significant that they chose to use "wearing armor" rather than, say, "using any armor." That second phrase could very well include shields, I admit, though it should specifically include them to be consistent with other parts of teh PHB. This first phrase seems to me to be refering to worn armor as opposed to shields. It seems that the PHB treats shields more like weapons when talking about worn items - armor and clothes are worn, weapons and shields are used (wielded, readied, or whatever term you like - but not really worn). And I note you keep hanging your hat on what is similar between armor and shields - I never denied they have simliar properties, but there is so much different about them it is hard to believe that "wearing armor" is the same as "wearing armor or using shields." BTW, I'll go back and edit my first post to include the statement you mentioned. It was already there as number 6, but only the second half of the quote. [/QUOTE]
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