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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
On Armor and Shields (aka what the heck are Shields, exactly?)
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<blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 68143" data-attributes="member: 710"><p>Shields are armor: </p><p>Pros:</p><p>p1) They are presented in the same table in the PHB. </p><p>p2) They both provide armor bonus.</p><p>p3) They both provide an armor check penalty when someone is not proficient in them.</p><p>p4) They both provide Arcane Spell Failure to arcane spell casters.</p><p>p5) In each class descriptions, you will find the entry "weapons & armor profiencies", and in this entry are shields included.</p><p></p><p>Cons: </p><p>c1) They do not have a Max Dex</p><p>c2) They do not have an entry Speed restriction (or reduction)</p><p>c3) There is no time defined for getting on shields, unlike for Light, medium and Heavy Armor.</p><p>c4) Shields can be used as weapon (bashing).</p><p>c5) Shields can be striked</p><p>c6) sometimes shield bonus are defined.</p><p></p><p>For further pro/contra arguments: </p><p>p1) Presenting equipment on the same table might also be a mistake or a way to make finding items easier. On the other hand, different types of equipement are typically not in the same table. On still another hand (wow 3 hands?) , Armor Spikes, Locked Gauntlets and Shield Spikes are also in this table, entry "Extras". (I believe in this case there might be a need for up to 5 hands, still I could continue this...)</p><p>p2) collides with c6). All clarifications in later issues seem to indicate that this must be some kind of editing error, since, actually there is no shield bonus to AC, it is a armor bonus that is allowed to stack with some armor bonus of other sources. Which doesn`t make anything easier... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p>c1) Shields do not have a Max Dex might be because logically a high dex fighter migt even be able to make a better use of a shield when he can get it fast between him and his opponent, so he should not be penalized for it.</p><p>c2) Shields, unlike armor, are not wrapped around body parts, which might be the main reason for the heavier armor types to slow movement. Though this is an argument for shields being armor, this might be considered an argument for monks using shields. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p>On page p.105 PHB in the entry speed there is an extra passage that specifically says that shields do not affect a character`s speed, indicating that they could since they are armor...</p><p>c3) You must ready a shield, this can be considered the amount of time to "don" a shield. Since it can be done quite fast, there is no need to give the time in minutes. </p><p>c4) I don`t know if this is a real argument. There is no rule that states that armor cannot inflict damage. Aren´t there rules for objects falling down and thus inflicting damage? </p><p></p><p>Unaffected (until now):</p><p>p3, p4, p5, c5</p><p>3:1 for shields are armor? Probably not for everyone. For me: Yes. But I thought so before, and so, this doesn`t mean anything...</p><p></p><p>Excuse my "reviwing" of this thread. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mustrum_Ridcully, post: 68143, member: 710"] Shields are armor: Pros: p1) They are presented in the same table in the PHB. p2) They both provide armor bonus. p3) They both provide an armor check penalty when someone is not proficient in them. p4) They both provide Arcane Spell Failure to arcane spell casters. p5) In each class descriptions, you will find the entry "weapons & armor profiencies", and in this entry are shields included. Cons: c1) They do not have a Max Dex c2) They do not have an entry Speed restriction (or reduction) c3) There is no time defined for getting on shields, unlike for Light, medium and Heavy Armor. c4) Shields can be used as weapon (bashing). c5) Shields can be striked c6) sometimes shield bonus are defined. For further pro/contra arguments: p1) Presenting equipment on the same table might also be a mistake or a way to make finding items easier. On the other hand, different types of equipement are typically not in the same table. On still another hand (wow 3 hands?) , Armor Spikes, Locked Gauntlets and Shield Spikes are also in this table, entry "Extras". (I believe in this case there might be a need for up to 5 hands, still I could continue this...) p2) collides with c6). All clarifications in later issues seem to indicate that this must be some kind of editing error, since, actually there is no shield bonus to AC, it is a armor bonus that is allowed to stack with some armor bonus of other sources. Which doesn`t make anything easier... :) c1) Shields do not have a Max Dex might be because logically a high dex fighter migt even be able to make a better use of a shield when he can get it fast between him and his opponent, so he should not be penalized for it. c2) Shields, unlike armor, are not wrapped around body parts, which might be the main reason for the heavier armor types to slow movement. Though this is an argument for shields being armor, this might be considered an argument for monks using shields. :) On page p.105 PHB in the entry speed there is an extra passage that specifically says that shields do not affect a character`s speed, indicating that they could since they are armor... c3) You must ready a shield, this can be considered the amount of time to "don" a shield. Since it can be done quite fast, there is no need to give the time in minutes. c4) I don`t know if this is a real argument. There is no rule that states that armor cannot inflict damage. Aren´t there rules for objects falling down and thus inflicting damage? Unaffected (until now): p3, p4, p5, c5 3:1 for shields are armor? Probably not for everyone. For me: Yes. But I thought so before, and so, this doesn`t mean anything... Excuse my "reviwing" of this thread. :) [/QUOTE]
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