Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
On Behavioral Realism
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7953414" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>They don't treat <em>treasure/income </em>as a component of PC build. They have social resolution mechanics. They allow time to pass (though in different ways - in RM, because healing, studying rituals, etc takes time; in Prince Valiant because all passage of time and recovery and so on is purely GM fiat, and so it is easy to narrate "seasons pass").</p><p></p><p>Another feature that I think is important is that they downplay the idea of "the adventure" and "the quest giver". Without wanting to be too pejorative about D&D - which is an unhelpful turn that this thread is taking - I think it's fair to say that they depend a bit less than D&D often does on "unreal" contrivances to make the action work. The sorts of contrivances I'm referring to are the dungeon, wacky traps, sequences of monsters, etc that tend to characterise a lot of D&D play. I think this sort of stuff crowds out "realistic" fiction.</p><p></p><p>In 5e play the idea of 6 o 8 encounters per "adventuring day" is one part of cross-class balance. I think that can be one source of pressure towards the contrivances I've just tried to describe. So that's one are you might look at - eg will changing recovery periods allow play to take on a more "realistic" rhythm. (I don't know the answer, but am just trying to think some things through.)</p><p></p><p>In my Prince Valiant game, when two PCs were rivals for the hand of the one maiden, we were able to resolve their courtship in various ways because the game has a uniform resolution system for all sorts of conflict - I can't remember all the details now, but I do remember at one point the two PCs were deciding who would be the one to be sponsored by Violette at the joust (or something like that) and resolving it via opposed Fellowship checks. This is an example of what I mean when I say that the "realistic" action isn't something that sits outside of, or alongside, the real action of the game but rather is itself part of the action.</p><p></p><p>I don't have a clear idea of how one would drift 5e D&D in this sort of direciton - I don't know the system well enough. I haven't tried this sort of drift in 4e D&D - our 4e game (with many of the same players as these other games I've described) didn't have a lot of this sort of grounded realism in it: it was more about charismatic leadership and cosmological conflicts than friends and family and interpersonal relationships.</p><p></p><p>But I would look at how one frames the action, how one treats treasure and other rewards, what one puts at stake in the fiction, how one handles pacing - these are some of the things that seem relevant to me.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7953414, member: 42582"] They don't treat [I]treasure/income [/I]as a component of PC build. They have social resolution mechanics. They allow time to pass (though in different ways - in RM, because healing, studying rituals, etc takes time; in Prince Valiant because all passage of time and recovery and so on is purely GM fiat, and so it is easy to narrate "seasons pass"). Another feature that I think is important is that they downplay the idea of "the adventure" and "the quest giver". Without wanting to be too pejorative about D&D - which is an unhelpful turn that this thread is taking - I think it's fair to say that they depend a bit less than D&D often does on "unreal" contrivances to make the action work. The sorts of contrivances I'm referring to are the dungeon, wacky traps, sequences of monsters, etc that tend to characterise a lot of D&D play. I think this sort of stuff crowds out "realistic" fiction. In 5e play the idea of 6 o 8 encounters per "adventuring day" is one part of cross-class balance. I think that can be one source of pressure towards the contrivances I've just tried to describe. So that's one are you might look at - eg will changing recovery periods allow play to take on a more "realistic" rhythm. (I don't know the answer, but am just trying to think some things through.) In my Prince Valiant game, when two PCs were rivals for the hand of the one maiden, we were able to resolve their courtship in various ways because the game has a uniform resolution system for all sorts of conflict - I can't remember all the details now, but I do remember at one point the two PCs were deciding who would be the one to be sponsored by Violette at the joust (or something like that) and resolving it via opposed Fellowship checks. This is an example of what I mean when I say that the "realistic" action isn't something that sits outside of, or alongside, the real action of the game but rather is itself part of the action. I don't have a clear idea of how one would drift 5e D&D in this sort of direciton - I don't know the system well enough. I haven't tried this sort of drift in 4e D&D - our 4e game (with many of the same players as these other games I've described) didn't have a lot of this sort of grounded realism in it: it was more about charismatic leadership and cosmological conflicts than friends and family and interpersonal relationships. But I would look at how one frames the action, how one treats treasure and other rewards, what one puts at stake in the fiction, how one handles pacing - these are some of the things that seem relevant to me. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
On Behavioral Realism
Top