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General Tabletop Discussion
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On Behavioral Realism
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7956130" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>I think that the part of poker you're discussing is a poor fit. Specifically, as I noted above, the part you're talking about is the metagame -- the game that exists outside of the rules of poker. Bluffing, reading, calculating odds, etc., these are really part of a different game that occurs when you sit down to play poker. Nothing you do with bluffing affects how the rules of poker play out -- in fact, bluffing depends on those rules being immutable because it's the game that exists when you play the game of poker.</p><p></p><p>Meanwhile, roleplaying is, nominally, part and parcel of an RPG. Roleplaying is not a metagame that is created when you play an RPG; it's the objective, at least in part.</p><p></p><p>This is a careful distinction, but talking about how a game might or might not have rules for something really doesn't address a metagame that exists on top of the presented game. I can play poker and not bluff, not read, just the game as the rules say. I shouldn't be able to play an RPG without roleplaying.</p><p></p><p>And, really, you cannot, as the first part of playing an RPG is taking on a role via your character. Now, there's a lot of discussion about what roleplaying is, with some having extremely narrow definitions, but at it's most basic, it's just the playing of a role. Which you do if you play a character in an RPG, even if you never once put on a silly voice, provide dialog, or speak in the first person. Those things may be expectations of a table, a given group may constrain or incentivize roleplaying ([USER=4937]@Celebrim[/USER] clearly incentivizes speaking dialog in character for his games), but this isn't required by the rules. This is where table agreements and traditions start entering the game with expectations from outside the rules that then create constraints and incentives within the rules.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7956130, member: 16814"] I think that the part of poker you're discussing is a poor fit. Specifically, as I noted above, the part you're talking about is the metagame -- the game that exists outside of the rules of poker. Bluffing, reading, calculating odds, etc., these are really part of a different game that occurs when you sit down to play poker. Nothing you do with bluffing affects how the rules of poker play out -- in fact, bluffing depends on those rules being immutable because it's the game that exists when you play the game of poker. Meanwhile, roleplaying is, nominally, part and parcel of an RPG. Roleplaying is not a metagame that is created when you play an RPG; it's the objective, at least in part. This is a careful distinction, but talking about how a game might or might not have rules for something really doesn't address a metagame that exists on top of the presented game. I can play poker and not bluff, not read, just the game as the rules say. I shouldn't be able to play an RPG without roleplaying. And, really, you cannot, as the first part of playing an RPG is taking on a role via your character. Now, there's a lot of discussion about what roleplaying is, with some having extremely narrow definitions, but at it's most basic, it's just the playing of a role. Which you do if you play a character in an RPG, even if you never once put on a silly voice, provide dialog, or speak in the first person. Those things may be expectations of a table, a given group may constrain or incentivize roleplaying ([USER=4937]@Celebrim[/USER] clearly incentivizes speaking dialog in character for his games), but this isn't required by the rules. This is where table agreements and traditions start entering the game with expectations from outside the rules that then create constraints and incentives within the rules. [/QUOTE]
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