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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Taren Nighteyes" data-source="post: 5012917" data-attributes="member: 806">My group had a discussion and disagreement on when saving throws were allowed for on going effects.Example 1:  Bad guy steps into a Wall of Thorns, takes the immediate damage as described and at the end of the turn, I allow him to make a saving throw against the on going effect that he has gained by stepping into the Wall of Thorns.  The players argue that since the bad guy hasn't taken any damage from the on going effect (which won't happen until the beginning of his next turn), he can't save against the effect.  I rule that he gains the on going effect immediately, but just doesn't take damage until next round and therefor can roll a saving throw at the end of his turn as the rules state.Example 2: Bad guy gets hit by either an immediate interrupt or attack of opportunity during the bad guy's turn.  Damage is dealt and there is an on going effect (let's say fire or acid damage).  I allow a saving throw to remove the on going effect at the end of the bad guy's turn despite not getting any damage from the on going effect (just as in example 1 above)Anyone have any help they can offer me?  If there is an official ruling/understanding of this, then I'd like to put this disagreement to bed!Thanks,Taren Nighteyes</blockquote>