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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8246981" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>Yeah but this is my point. None of what makes 5E successful is the grogpinion stuff. It's stuff that was coincidental to that - accessibility, mechanics like advantage/disadvantage, a wide variety of classes which can be customized quite a bit and have simple and complex versions. It's not things like retaining alignment, or rolling for stats or HP, or martials not having any powers, or the like. Nor is it Vancian casting, I daresay. And a problem 5E has is the lack of a "simple" caster beyond the Warlock, and that's a grog-caused problem I feel.</p><p></p><p>Listening to grogs who always have a narrower view of "what D&D should be" would inevitably lead to a less-inclusive game. That doesn't mean 6E won't have elements or options grogs might well like - I expect the way healing is done to work a bit better in 6E and to probably include better-integrated "gritty" options - but it does mean that they're merely one small group of players whose opinion should be given a very light weight.</p><p></p><p>You say "Well some non-grogs like playing groggy ways!", and if that's true, it'll get picked up in WotC's surveys and playtesting and so on. But what they need to avoid doing is primarily directing their surveys and playtesting AT grogs, which is what they did, aggressively, in D&D Next (to the point of actively recruiting OSR people to advise them on Next).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 8246981, member: 18"] Yeah but this is my point. None of what makes 5E successful is the grogpinion stuff. It's stuff that was coincidental to that - accessibility, mechanics like advantage/disadvantage, a wide variety of classes which can be customized quite a bit and have simple and complex versions. It's not things like retaining alignment, or rolling for stats or HP, or martials not having any powers, or the like. Nor is it Vancian casting, I daresay. And a problem 5E has is the lack of a "simple" caster beyond the Warlock, and that's a grog-caused problem I feel. Listening to grogs who always have a narrower view of "what D&D should be" would inevitably lead to a less-inclusive game. That doesn't mean 6E won't have elements or options grogs might well like - I expect the way healing is done to work a bit better in 6E and to probably include better-integrated "gritty" options - but it does mean that they're merely one small group of players whose opinion should be given a very light weight. You say "Well some non-grogs like playing groggy ways!", and if that's true, it'll get picked up in WotC's surveys and playtesting and so on. But what they need to avoid doing is primarily directing their surveys and playtesting AT grogs, which is what they did, aggressively, in D&D Next (to the point of actively recruiting OSR people to advise them on Next). [/QUOTE]
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