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<blockquote data-quote="Snarf Zagyg" data-source="post: 8247647" data-attributes="member: 7023840"><p>That can be just as true in new, narrative games.</p><p></p><p>When I see people discuss games, whether it's <em>Dogs in the Vineyard </em>or <em>Apocalypse World</em> (as [USER=70468]@kenada[/USER] just did ... NICE HAT!) I am always reminded of the <em>Mitchell & Webb </em>skit about <em>Kitchen Nightmares </em>where you have a sneering Gordon Ramsay type trying to teach a regular chef/owner how to cook ... and after doing it easily, the restaurant owner points out the absurdity of it all:</p><p></p><p>Owner: I can't cook that! And-and there's loads of things in there you didn't even mention, like the thing with the potato that might as well be magic as far as I'm concerned.</p><p>Host: It's just local ingredients simply cooked.</p><p>Owner: By you! King Lear is just English words put in order! The only way any of this will help my restaurant is if you stay forever.</p><p></p><p>So many times, we see people happily discuss simplified rule-sets that "constrain" the DM by making the DM "say yes" or "fail forward," but give the DM a great deal of latitude ... a near infinite amount, in choosing what happens. What is fail forward? Right? I mean, it could be anything, and while you could have some example, in the end, some people will just be able to "wing it" and use a good narrative (or good tricks, or lots of practice, or be good at TTRPGs and interactive fiction) in order to make the rules work. Put in your terms- the way that John describes failing forward (or the effects of saying yes) will be <em>completely different than how </em>Chad does; so John and Chad's tables will play out completely differently despite the declared actions of players. <em>shrug</em> </p><p></p><p>That's also the case with a lot of the "old school" rules as people play them now. The experience of the DM (and the players), the amount of trust at the table, the comfort with narrative and description- especially "on the fly"; these are all factors. </p><p></p><p>Or, to put in the terms of M&W- for some people, what Matt Mercer and his table do (for instance) "might as well be magic" - and that doesn't have to do with the ruleset.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Snarf Zagyg, post: 8247647, member: 7023840"] That can be just as true in new, narrative games. When I see people discuss games, whether it's [I]Dogs in the Vineyard [/I]or [I]Apocalypse World[/I] (as [USER=70468]@kenada[/USER] just did ... NICE HAT!) I am always reminded of the [I]Mitchell & Webb [/I]skit about [I]Kitchen Nightmares [/I]where you have a sneering Gordon Ramsay type trying to teach a regular chef/owner how to cook ... and after doing it easily, the restaurant owner points out the absurdity of it all: Owner: I can't cook that! And-and there's loads of things in there you didn't even mention, like the thing with the potato that might as well be magic as far as I'm concerned. Host: It's just local ingredients simply cooked. Owner: By you! King Lear is just English words put in order! The only way any of this will help my restaurant is if you stay forever. So many times, we see people happily discuss simplified rule-sets that "constrain" the DM by making the DM "say yes" or "fail forward," but give the DM a great deal of latitude ... a near infinite amount, in choosing what happens. What is fail forward? Right? I mean, it could be anything, and while you could have some example, in the end, some people will just be able to "wing it" and use a good narrative (or good tricks, or lots of practice, or be good at TTRPGs and interactive fiction) in order to make the rules work. Put in your terms- the way that John describes failing forward (or the effects of saying yes) will be [I]completely different than how [/I]Chad does; so John and Chad's tables will play out completely differently despite the declared actions of players. [I]shrug[/I] That's also the case with a lot of the "old school" rules as people play them now. The experience of the DM (and the players), the amount of trust at the table, the comfort with narrative and description- especially "on the fly"; these are all factors. Or, to put in the terms of M&W- for some people, what Matt Mercer and his table do (for instance) "might as well be magic" - and that doesn't have to do with the ruleset. [/QUOTE]
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