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Message: <blockquote data-quote="catastrophic" data-source="post: 4923626" data-attributes="member: 81381">The thing is, it would be great to talk about combat and 4e because I do think there are issues with it, but the problem is that the real issues have very little to do with the issues people make up when they're ranting. The same goes for the broader role of combat in 4e: I do suspect that combat is being over-represented in 4e, but it's certainly not due to most of the dodgy reasons people present, especially since most of the people criticising it don't even play and many of them clearly haven't even read the rules. While people are forced to endlessly debate and indulge the fake issues, the real issues are neglected and distorted. I'm not down on markb here, obviously he's not happy with his 4e gaming, but I really doubt the problem is 4e homogeneity. I think he's probably seen a LOT of 4e fights in a relativly small time, and his DMs are not progressing and mastering the making of encounters well enough to make them distinctive enough for him after so much gaming.  In 4e it can be kind of easy as a DM to phone in a fight- in no small part because, by default, fights are much more manageable and entertaining. It is really easy in 4e, early on, to toss down a bunch of monsters and have a decently fun fight which goes well beyond a simple slog through walking bags of hit points. The same cannot be said for 3e, no matter what it's proponents may claim. But over time that can result in a DM becoming complacent, and repeating the same template too much- toss in a couple of brutes and a soldier, hang a lurker around the back, sprinkle on minions, and serve. That's fine to a point, but I think more DMs should push forward a bit more, and make more use of terrain and other special conditions. They also need to be more aware of the problems the system may have. Soldiers can be very frustrating to some players, and if there's always a solider up front in your encounters, that frustration can build over time. As noted solos can often go into 'overtime' and early solos tend to be too tough, and not daangerous enough- they last too long and don't really do much while they're there. Minions are often neglected, and many dms apparently don't use them at all, but they also need to be managed, and used in moderation- if every fight has a minion horde, it's going to get old, fast. There's a lot of good discussion that can be had about fourth edition and D&d in general, when people aren't distracted by dodgy issues invented to stir up the edition war.</blockquote>

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