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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 8976371" data-attributes="member: 6785785"><p>You named one game that few would argue involves GM force of one sort or another, and then two schools of games that basically came about in response to the GM force, seeking to actively prevent it. </p><p></p><p>So yes, I read what you wrote. And it's sufficiently vague enough for me to question it. What OSR games are you talking about? What indy games are you talking about? </p><p></p><p>Can you back up your argument rather than just state your argument? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not ignoring what you wrote. I asked what is the tradeoff. Is flexibility what you meant? Is that all? Are there any other tradeoffs? </p><p></p><p>What specific games do you think lose flexibility due to the rigidity of their processes? How? </p><p></p><p>If there are other tradeoffs, what specific games do you think make those tradeoffs? How? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Your OP, as has been pointed out, takes the standard definition of Illusionism and then redefines it more broadly, to include "players believing they are playing one game but actually playing another, and also GMs thinking they are running one game, but actually running another." </p><p></p><p>That's redefining the term.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 8976371, member: 6785785"] You named one game that few would argue involves GM force of one sort or another, and then two schools of games that basically came about in response to the GM force, seeking to actively prevent it. So yes, I read what you wrote. And it's sufficiently vague enough for me to question it. What OSR games are you talking about? What indy games are you talking about? Can you back up your argument rather than just state your argument? I'm not ignoring what you wrote. I asked what is the tradeoff. Is flexibility what you meant? Is that all? Are there any other tradeoffs? What specific games do you think lose flexibility due to the rigidity of their processes? How? If there are other tradeoffs, what specific games do you think make those tradeoffs? How? Your OP, as has been pointed out, takes the standard definition of Illusionism and then redefines it more broadly, to include "players believing they are playing one game but actually playing another, and also GMs thinking they are running one game, but actually running another." That's redefining the term. [/QUOTE]
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