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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DrunkonDuty" data-source="post: 5047682" data-attributes="member: 54364">I'm gonna go with Miracles = Passive; Magic = Active. Magical systems have always been intended to coerce the universe into a preferred pattern of behaviour. Either by sympathetic magic, right thinking, propitiating the spirits, getting your chi to flow uphill and whatnot. Miracles just happen (and are ultimately from a source outside of the beneficiaries of said miracle.) Miracles are granted based solely on the whims of the granting power and although people may need them and even deserve them these have no bearing on whether or not the miracle will happen. Attempts to request miracles (ie: active attempt) are frequently met with a response similar to 'Do not tempt him, shallow one!' That being said, certain individuals have a right to ask for miracles. Moses and parting the Red Sea for instance. But this right is always granted by the miraculous power* and can be taken away at that being's whim. Certainly people can hope for them, beg for them, need them. None of which matters: sometimes the Lord is moved to pity, sometimes not. The 'why' and 'why not' of the situation are unknowable. Of course there's grey areas and many folks claim miracles while attempting magic (eg: faith healers.) But just because the magicians are calling on outside powers does not make it miraculous. Many real world magical systems involve calling on supernatural entities (eg: genius locii, elementals, ancestors, etc.) The main thing about a magical system is that, in theory, the results should be repeatable. Failures to repeat are blamed on things like lack of strength of will, a change in the relationship with the granting power, interference from hostile powers, etc. Yabanjin: I must disagree with you regarding miracles only coming from Good aligned deities. Why can't Evil deities grant miracles to their followers? They may be evil but these are their people they're miracling for. Their's in a very real and possessive sense. Oh the evil deity's motives may be different, more of a 'don't touch my stuff' than 'love and pity' sort of thing but a miracle is a miracle and no-one has a right to question the motives of the granting power (by my definition above anyway.) Jack7: must disagree with you too. (I guess I'm just in that sort of mood.)  This isn't evidence of miracles. This is just different levels of medical technology.  *Or the religious community depending on whether or not one believes miracles and their granting power are real. Or to put it another way: whether or not one is inside the religious community in question. cheers.</blockquote>

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