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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8253229" data-attributes="member: 82106">There were rather few RPGs before 1978 when the 1e PHB was released. Classic Traveller was one, Tunnels &amp; Trolls was another, and Empire of the Petal Throne was a 3rd (which TSR published, though I think MAR Barker designed the game, anyway it was not that different from D&amp;D mechanically). RQ didn't come out until 1978. Bushido was out around '78 too. MA and GW were basically 'D&amp;D as Science Fantasy' so they added little in terms of design expertise. Boot Hill was a very simple system, sort of a 'beer and pretzels' game really. PCs mostly didn't live through even one session. Wikipedia also lists a number of other games. En Garde! was a very early RPG about basically dueling swordsmen. I see a few others I have played or at least read, but many of these really were very primitive games in a design sense, which often saw a single printing and then vanished forever, or became restricted to very limited niche fan bases. V&amp;V came out in '79, that one was pretty successful. Chivalry &amp; Sorcery in '77 was also a pretty long-lived game, but I can't say honestly that it added much to the cannon of RPG design compared to D&amp;D. Bunnies &amp; Burrows, somewhat considered a joke RPG at the time, was nonetheless the first game to use skills AFAIK, something that TSR never really took to, but which was emulated by Traveller and then RuneQuestTruthfully, T&amp;T was pretty different and innovative, but not much else has gone in that direction. There were other games that aren't listed here too. There was a Sci Fi RPG, where the players played the SHIPS, not human characters. It was VERY different from anything that has come since really, another 'road not taken' by mainline RPGs. I mean, AD&amp;D 1e PHB COULD have learned a few things, but it was mostly a compendium of Gary's actual in-play rules, not a redesign of D&amp;D as-such. So it could have cribbed skills from B&amp;B, but didn't. It could have cribbed from T&amp;T as well, but the two were so different it would have been hard to translate any mechanics (and T&amp;T has VERY few mechanics!).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8253229, member: 82106"] There were rather few RPGs before 1978 when the 1e PHB was released. Classic Traveller was one, Tunnels & Trolls was another, and Empire of the Petal Throne was a 3rd (which TSR published, though I think MAR Barker designed the game, anyway it was not that different from D&D mechanically). RQ didn't come out until 1978. Bushido was out around '78 too. MA and GW were basically 'D&D as Science Fantasy' so they added little in terms of design expertise. Boot Hill was a very simple system, sort of a 'beer and pretzels' game really. PCs mostly didn't live through even one session. Wikipedia also lists a number of other games. En Garde! was a very early RPG about basically dueling swordsmen. I see a few others I have played or at least read, but many of these really were very primitive games in a design sense, which often saw a single printing and then vanished forever, or became restricted to very limited niche fan bases. V&V came out in '79, that one was pretty successful. Chivalry & Sorcery in '77 was also a pretty long-lived game, but I can't say honestly that it added much to the cannon of RPG design compared to D&D. Bunnies & Burrows, somewhat considered a joke RPG at the time, was nonetheless the first game to use skills AFAIK, something that TSR never really took to, but which was emulated by Traveller and then RuneQuest Truthfully, T&T was pretty different and innovative, but not much else has gone in that direction. There were other games that aren't listed here too. There was a Sci Fi RPG, where the players played the SHIPS, not human characters. It was VERY different from anything that has come since really, another 'road not taken' by mainline RPGs. I mean, AD&D 1e PHB COULD have learned a few things, but it was mostly a compendium of Gary's actual in-play rules, not a redesign of D&D as-such. So it could have cribbed skills from B&B, but didn't. It could have cribbed from T&T as well, but the two were so different it would have been hard to translate any mechanics (and T&T has VERY few mechanics!). [/QUOTE]

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