Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
On rulings, rules, and Twitter, or: How Sage Advice Changed
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Helpful NPC Thom" data-source="post: 8362659" data-attributes="member: 7031378"><p>With regard to combat in D&D and murderhoboism:</p><p></p><p>Combat is rules-intensive with the most defined input/output and a definite win/lose state.</p><p></p><p>Input: To-hit roll vs. AC.</p><p>Output: Deplete opponent's hit points.</p><p>Win/Lose: Determined by whomever reaches 0 HP first.</p><p></p><p>Everything else is dependent on the GM. Almost every skill check in a game is determined by the GM's perception of what is probable/improbable in terms of success, failure, and complications. The timing of skill checks and DCs are determined largely by GM fiat. Even predetermined skill checks in adventure modules are based on the authors' view of what is probable. Combat, in a sharp contrast, is not. There are rules for hit points, saving throws, Armor Classes, and more clearly laid out in the Monster Manual.</p><p></p><p>Translating this into the game-at-the-table: if the GM says "no" to persuading an NPC to do what the players want, or if he deems it improbable (calling for a skill check that might fail), there's always combat as a fallback. It's something the players have in their metaphorical adventuring backpacks. The GM can say "no" to a Bluff or Intimidate roll (or simply deem it so improbable it will like as not fail), but he can't say no to a d20 vs. AC roll.</p><p></p><p>I mean he could, but that would be breaking the rules. After all, the rules say exactly what the merchant's Armor Class and hit points are, and the rules say that the players can make an attack roll vs. AC to deplete hit points. There's no "roll Persuasion vs. Greed Class" to convince the merchant to give you a bulk discount on potions, but there is a "hit the merchant hard enough and he'll have to choose between giving you a discount on potions or dying"-Class. Most GMs and players alike would view denying the ability to engage in a physical altercation as a gross breach of etiquette. Funny how that works: saying that a Persuasion check is off the table is acceptable, but saying an attack throw cannot succeed is some monstrous form of railroading.</p><p></p><p>Broadly speaking, this is what [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER] is getting at when he talks about the D&D bubble and unstated assumptions about the game.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Helpful NPC Thom, post: 8362659, member: 7031378"] With regard to combat in D&D and murderhoboism: Combat is rules-intensive with the most defined input/output and a definite win/lose state. Input: To-hit roll vs. AC. Output: Deplete opponent's hit points. Win/Lose: Determined by whomever reaches 0 HP first. Everything else is dependent on the GM. Almost every skill check in a game is determined by the GM's perception of what is probable/improbable in terms of success, failure, and complications. The timing of skill checks and DCs are determined largely by GM fiat. Even predetermined skill checks in adventure modules are based on the authors' view of what is probable. Combat, in a sharp contrast, is not. There are rules for hit points, saving throws, Armor Classes, and more clearly laid out in the Monster Manual. Translating this into the game-at-the-table: if the GM says "no" to persuading an NPC to do what the players want, or if he deems it improbable (calling for a skill check that might fail), there's always combat as a fallback. It's something the players have in their metaphorical adventuring backpacks. The GM can say "no" to a Bluff or Intimidate roll (or simply deem it so improbable it will like as not fail), but he can't say no to a d20 vs. AC roll. I mean he could, but that would be breaking the rules. After all, the rules say exactly what the merchant's Armor Class and hit points are, and the rules say that the players can make an attack roll vs. AC to deplete hit points. There's no "roll Persuasion vs. Greed Class" to convince the merchant to give you a bulk discount on potions, but there is a "hit the merchant hard enough and he'll have to choose between giving you a discount on potions or dying"-Class. Most GMs and players alike would view denying the ability to engage in a physical altercation as a gross breach of etiquette. Funny how that works: saying that a Persuasion check is off the table is acceptable, but saying an attack throw cannot succeed is some monstrous form of railroading. Broadly speaking, this is what [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER] is getting at when he talks about the D&D bubble and unstated assumptions about the game. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
On rulings, rules, and Twitter, or: How Sage Advice Changed
Top