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<blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7502295" data-attributes="member: 6880599">I would not say my Fighter/Sorcerer as subpar and fell in the &quot;did it right&quot; category... I did take out a Balor Demon in 3 turns doing 100% of the damage (Shadow blade at level 5 {4d8} + Booming Blade {3d8} x 2 for quicken spell meta magic... only to miss a higher dex save again when it exploded...but Absorb elements meant I still only took 35 damage ... but I will also admit that the bard was using hold person and our cleric healed me right after... but through out the session I was able to get away with using minimal magic so that I could dump everything I had in on the big boss... which worked out alright. ...But I digress my only real point here is that &quot;at higher level&quot; is perhaps a bit of misleading qualifier for judging the usefulness of saves because of minions as you mentioned and the commonality of the default caster archytype NPC means CR6 Mage, CR7 Drow Mage, and CR12 ArchMages will be more prevelent in many campaigns as &quot;go to caster NPCs&quot;. Strength and Consitution as the most use saves represents a good statistic but perhaps a little misleading as your&nbsp; likely to fight strength based saves from &quot;brute&quot; enemies targeting a single oponenet however your common caster NPCs who are likely to use&nbsp; lighting and fireball spells GMs are so familiar with will likely effect everyone. This doesn't mean&nbsp; your wrong about strength and con saves, but it might mean that Dex is&nbsp; still a solid third over wisdom due to the commality of putting base casters or even homebrew casters as minions and melee support with the favored spells bein AoE spells that will frequestly cause dex saves on mutiple targets at once. I think this means while you may have more strength and consitution abilities that may trigger more often, your more likely to have Fireballs, Lighting bolt, and even traps as dex saves hitting mutiple party members so the number of dex saves per trigger will tend to behigher dramaticly increasing its usefulness. The perseptions of door trap is triggered, fire ball in the middle of the group... GM: &quot;everyone make a dex save&quot; is why &quot;Dexterity is king&quot;...even if not entirely true.&quot;Also, there is very little amount of low-end creatures that trigger Dex&nbsp; saves: most of them are top-notch, with a CR greater than 10. That is,&nbsp; they are uncommon until late levels.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ClaytonCross, post: 7502295, member: 6880599"] I would not say my Fighter/Sorcerer as subpar and fell in the "did it right" category... I did take out a Balor Demon in 3 turns doing 100% of the damage (Shadow blade at level 5 {4d8} + Booming Blade {3d8} x 2 for quicken spell meta magic... only to miss a higher dex save again when it exploded...but Absorb elements meant I still only took 35 damage ... but I will also admit that the bard was using hold person and our cleric healed me right after... but through out the session I was able to get away with using minimal magic so that I could dump everything I had in on the big boss... which worked out alright. ...But I digress my only real point here is that "at higher level" is perhaps a bit of misleading qualifier for judging the usefulness of saves because of minions as you mentioned and the commonality of the default caster archytype NPC means [B]CR6 Mage[/B], [B]CR7 Drow Mage[/B], and CR12 ArchMages will be more prevelent in many campaigns as "go to caster NPCs". Strength and Consitution as the most use saves represents a good statistic but perhaps a little misleading as your likely to fight strength based saves from "brute" enemies targeting a single oponenet however your common caster NPCs who are likely to use lighting and fireball spells GMs are so familiar with will likely effect everyone. This doesn't mean your wrong about strength and con saves, but it might mean that Dex is still a solid third over wisdom due to the commality of putting base casters or even homebrew casters as minions and melee support with the favored spells bein AoE spells that will frequestly cause dex saves on mutiple targets at once. I think this means while you may have more strength and consitution abilities that may trigger more often, your more likely to have Fireballs, Lighting bolt, and even traps as dex saves hitting mutiple party members so the number of dex saves per trigger will tend to behigher dramaticly increasing its usefulness. The perseptions of door trap is triggered, fire ball in the middle of the group... GM: "everyone make a dex save" is why "Dexterity is king"...even if not entirely true. "Also, there is very little amount of low-end creatures that trigger Dex saves: most of them are top-notch, with a CR greater than 10. That is, they are uncommon until late levels." [/QUOTE]

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